I am planning to make a few field stands. By the look of it the design looks simple and easy. I have access to a lathe and I presume that all the components can be made in a lathe.
Please do let me know as to how easy/difficult the process will be.
I would be grateful if someone can share the dimensions
Here a war time drawing of a fieldstand. It's quite a bit of work to make one but it can be done. I don't have my bike here so I can't help you with measurements at the moment.
Good luck and please keep us in the loop. I may be interested in one or two, if some are for sale rather than for your personal use - I'll need to check the bikes in the back of the pack. But I'm not sure how useful a lathe would be. The main body of the stand is a tube (i.e., hollow) and the rest of the parts do not seem amenable to lathe fabrication.
You will need a lathe, milling machine, brazing or welding equipment and a couple of cycle thread taps and dies to make the complete field stand. Also you will have to source, or make, the field stand clip which is spring steel.The bulk of the work is in the main body of the knuckle joint which must be accurately reproduced for the stand to function correctly....Ian
Thank goodness the knuckle joint that I have is still in good shape....the rest off eqpt. to turn out a field stand is right at hand. I'm going to make up a knuckle joint tho' before that goes tits up on me as well! Any ideas on where I might lay my hands on a field stand clip,Ian? I hear that they are good for the rear stand as well. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Hi Hank...I know Russell Motors still had original field stand clips fairly recently as I bought one from them, so try there.
The M20 wasn't fitted with a rear stand clip and as long as the rear stand spring is in good condition they don't really need one. The spring holds the stand firmly in the raised position....Ian
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Hi Robb...I used to have a guy make these for me..he has now retired. However, I never had trouble selling them. They are often missing altogether from M20s...Ian
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Did anyone progress this project? I've just been drawing the parts into Solidworks and it looks like there are some issues with the main boss and some parts missing with the pictures in the technical section.
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Hi mark
There are 2 different knuckles - not very different but different all the same
There is the type which is used on the clamp on stand / normally associated with long forks stands -
And there is the type used on the short stand which was secured to a lug on the frame - this appeared in very late 1940 & continued until sometime in early 43 when the introduction of pannier frames & bags necessitated a new configuration
To complicate things - the early WD Bsa M20 were equipped with short stands & clamp on arrangement- I think this knuckle is the same as the lug on frame type due to the angle of the short stand still being parallel with the road surface - the long stand being secured near the rear wheel spindle and having a more downward angle -
I have clamps nos & the internal pivot nos but no internal spring
If you want to make these knuckles I am interested in some If acceptable pricing can achieved
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
This may be what is confusing me John. With the drawings on this site the pivot bolt will pass through.
No mention of the spring and sleeve shown on drags. Using the dimensions shown on drags of the sleeve it will not fit the knuckle.
I think I can work out how to make it work, but it would be nice if someone has the correct details.
The bike I'm building is 43, so that's what I'm aiming at to start with.
I expect I'll make half a dozen or so John once I prove it. I'll drop you an email once I have the times to price it. Minimum batch on these I think would be six.
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
I'm still struggling with this one. I've tweaked the numbers a little and added details to allow the use of the collar shown on drags.
By my calculations the spring inside can't be much more than 1.5mm wire.
Where I am at a lose is that the knuckle will still fall of the pivot bolt. Surly there must be some detail inside to stop this?
Has anyone got pictures or even dimensions?
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
That knuckle looks very like the early version as it has straight edges on the faces - it seems you can modify the later knuckle to an early type with some careful grinding - but a bit more difficult to reverse
Inside the knuckle - there is a lip for the pivot to bottom out on & a brass bush
The spring seems to act to take up some slack & provide a small bit of movement when the stand is being used
If you need metal mark / I have good used later knuckle - nos pivot, bush, frame clamps, bolts etc but no spring
I can provide these for loan / evaluation
Br
Job
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Mark, I have a couple of originals here that I have taken a quick photo of (one is used and the other NOS).
They have an internal lip not shown in that drawing.
The ID above the lip is 0.812" but below the lip is wider at 0.872" for one and 0.873" for the other.
Both are hardened as noted by Ian and my recollection of the one I have fitted to a bike is that the bush was steel not bronze but that is not necessarily original.
I'll take some detailed measurements for you later today.
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Hi mark
I am travelling to the U.K. tomorrow & will bring those items with me & post them Friday / Saturday to you
We can sort return at some point
Br
John
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Thank you John I have your parts now.
As I expected the puzzle grows.
The pivot bolt John sent me has a 7/16 20tpi thread. No! not UNF, 20tpi can still be cycle thread. The length is slightly different too.
The nut is interesting as I can't find another size to suggest it's not 15mm AF. 3/8BS is just too sloppy. Do we have 20mm AF and 15mm AF Nuts now on a M20?
Next observation is the collar that does not have a notch, this looks like it would be hard to fit the spring.
There was mention of different versions of the stand, but I haven't seen this in part numbers.
I don't want to make bespoke stands, so I'm a little worried about tearing into this at the moment.
As it happens Anita has given me about two weeks worth of aluminium to machine, so no change of slipping in steel parts between jobs.
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Not 20mm
It is in fact 25/32” a size that harks back to the beginning of BSA Motor Bicycles, and in fact used on many parts from circa 1912 and on.
Rear stand bolts foot rests cylinder bolts on earlier models, early gearbox fillers etc.
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
I've been allowed to play this weekend and I was hoping to do a lot more. It's not just about making the parts, it's trying to do it in an affordable way. Sadly this is all I have managed.
Using John's pivot bolt supplied it looks to be about 1mm longer on it's thick section that the bolt in the drawings. That change should make it a little snugger fitting once I make them. The internal sleeve could be notched or unnotched, I don't think it makes much difference other than price to make.
So we have a deployed picture and stored position picture mocked up. I think it will work.
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
It seems that this puzzle gets worse, now I have been kindly informed there are two ranges of movement for the Knuckle. 90 Degrees as in the Tech. Section drawings. Also 115 degrees, for the earlier bikes with the small rack on the back.
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Whilst checking over the parts this morning I decided I really should mock this up on a frame to prove the Tech section numbers work. They don't! A small adjustment will solve the problem of the knuckle eating the frame. Even then I don't feel that the deployed stand is far enough forward to be stable. The funny thing is, in it's stored position it would lift 10 degrees or more past the clip. This has me thinking it could go forward by 10 degrees and still keep it's range of movement as in the drawing?
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Thanks for posting the picture Ron, it looks like yours lands in about the same place as mine. I just feel if the stand was deployed a little further forward it improve stability.
I have tried playing around with different positions, but it only get worse. Also it would be touch and as if it could get close enough to be clipped in. So alterations on the Pivot too.
The rear frame I was hoping to use as parts, but it's scrap really. It's a 43 that I trying to build.
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Nothing really stable about these stands unless you're on soft ground, or you shut the engine down and park it in gear. If it's parked on a hard surface with the engine ticking over, it's liable to roll forward or back and fall over. DAMHIK:persevere: as old Hans would have said.
It's why I went to great lengths with the little jiffy stand I fitted. Ron
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
A little more angle would be good...Unlike Ron I like using the field stand and use it all the time on my M20s, particularly when the bike is fully loaded with camping gear etc. Then it is nearly impossible to get onto the rear stand and if you do manage, it will ultimately damage the stand/pivots etc. anyway..The bike does need to be left in gear as Ron notes....
If the bike is on softer ground the cleverness of the design becomes apparent...The high mounting point means the weight of the bike is primarily through the wheels and not the foot of the stand...I've been at a couple of events where I've just parked up and then watched the owners of more modern bikes help each other find bits of wood, pieces of stone etc. to put under their side stands...Ian
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
That would be an improvement...Personally, mine has never fallen over but it seems Rons has..When you've finished them to your satisfaction let me know or post on the forum...I'll have one off you....Ian
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Hi
Currently my stand stick comes forward until contact with the back of the footrest - meaning the machine rests against it be it at a slightly increased angle of lean
Coupled with first gear engaged - it’s going no where & is very stable
Ron
The stand frame lug is a very late - dec 1940 or very early Jan 41 addition & it seems introduced at the time of the deletion of the valenced rear guard & introduction of the simplified ribbed centre rear guard
An original 19 Jan 41 project I had -had a frame lug, ribbed rear guard - the valence rear guard does not permit the use of the frame lug rear section - I discovered this
It also had no rear pillion foot rest fittings being bare like marks
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Ian Wright
That would be an improvement...Personally, mine has never fallen over but it seems Rons has..When you've finished them to your satisfaction let me know or post on the forum...I'll have one off you....Ian
Mine has fallen over twice whilst ticking over on its field stand during several years of opening the bloody gate at the bottom of my lane. I always make sure its not moving before I approach the padlock. But it waits for me to turn my back and then....crunch.
I've resprayed my front mudguard three times over it. Once from a silly accident in Normandy....Remember that Ian? Ron
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
After a very late night re-machining the knuckles and pivots.
More Problems!
Easy one first. I thought the long field stand, the one that mounts above the seat spring. Was mounted with the knuckle below the frame tube?
The short version mounted below the seat spring had the knuckle above the frame tube?
This now leads onto the length of the stands. Hopefully there are not four lengths
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Yes Mark the long field stand is under the frame rail (see official drawing) The short stand is above.
I've just taken a couple of pix of my original, to show the angle I have it at and the max movement forward. Total length of the pole to the end of the point is 25". Ron
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Thanks Ron,
Just read every post "Field Stand" now I'm even more confused!
Ian writes that his NOS one has a tube length of 543mm
And yours works out to be around 560mm
I have interpreted these length based on actual post dimensions as everyone measures from different points.
So this is for the long stand.
Your stand worries me Ron as the big washer at the bottom looks to be 90 degrees out of rotation. The flat would make more sense if it was aligned with the bike.
It does look like the same kit of bits could be made to suit short and long, the only difference required is the length of the tube.
Oh what fun and games.
One thing for sure is that the tech section drawings are misleading despite the intension to help.
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Hi Ian
It’s possible my stick is bent, worn or both
But
It works well for me as when it contacts the rear of the footrest - it provides a very stable position
With 1st gear engaged - it’s not going anywhere
Br
Jo’b
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
The short stand has a complete disc at the lower end...I think the long stand is made so that the cutaway part of the disc gives more ground clearance and to stop the front edge catching on obstacles off road...The position of the cut away can be seen on the factory drawing..As the short stand is horizontal when 'clipped up' and the foot is much further from the ground no cut away is required....Ian
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Has any one got the dimensions from an original spring clip for the field stand?
The distance between the stand and face of the clip that the bolt goes through.
Also how much below the center of the bolt hole and the top of the stand tube?
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
The stand's not actually horizontal but here's a pic of the the 'short' one showing the full disc...I've got a NOS field stand clip I can lend you as a pattern...Contact me off forum with your postal details if you want to borrow it..There's also a mounting plate for the clip which is then attached to the frame. The purpose of that is to 'tilt' the clip to the right angle to align it with the leg of the stand when it is raised..Ian
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Hi Ian and Mark,
The photo that you posted is of the valanced mudguard, when the un valanced is used , the field stand is higher up. Like JoB posted earlier on in the thread. There are 2 different swivels, the one that Mark is making and one that fits on the Lug on the Frame. Years ago Henk sent me photos of them both, but at the moment I can't find them. I need an early one fitted to the lug.
If you look at the panier drawing you can see that the flat part of the disc is facing the road (for the reasons Ian pointed out) which is exactly how mine is. As I said in my previous post, I measured the total length of the post including the bit inside the swivel. But I will double check it in the morning. Ron
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
I just measured my stand again from the center of the pivot bolt to the point = 23 3/4" which according to my calculations is 1/8" longer than the drawing in the technical section. The stand was on the bike when I acquired it 33 years ago, so I'm quite sure it's not a repro. Ron
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
15-6053 Field stand pivot bolt
66-4710 Field stand assembly
15-6045 Field stand half clamp, threaded
15-6046 Field clamp half clamp, not threaded
15-6052 Field stand spring inside pivot
15-6056 Field stand pivot pin collar
31-4197 Field stand clip
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Hi
Yesterday I received a complete & original clamp on short stand assy
I date this from late 39 to late 1940 when the lug on frame & ribbed non valenced guard were first seen - December 40/ Jan 41 in my estimation
The first item I looked at was the knuckle & the faces where the pivot stops
From what I can see - the knuckle is same as the later long stand with the sharper leading edges & not the flat face seen on short stand used with a fixed frame lug
I can only think this allows for different angle of use according to fixing arrangement on the frame
Just my observations- so it’s possible that the later knuckle was in fact the original early type, replaced & then reintroduced with pannier frames & bags
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Hi John,
Just wondering, has yours got any part numbers stamped on them? The knuckle that I have got, has 66-4722 stamped on it. I'm sure it's early/ late one like Mark is making.
Has anyone got any good photos, of how the stand is installed on the frame lug, not the clamp on style?
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
Hi dave
I can check mine tomorrow & see if anything is stamped there
I know someone with an nos knuckle flat face type - I hope to persuade him to part with it as I believe this is for the lug on frame type
Could be completely wrong but !
Br
Job
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
I have to say a BIG thank you to everyone who has helped with this project so far.
It's an interesting puzzle with a few misleading mistakes on previous work.
The chamfers have to be at 90 degrees to the stop faces or the frame could be eaten.
As they are all mounted on the same frame tube, I suspect the deployed stop could be in the same place for all versions.
For the stored position the stop does not need to make contact as the clip holds it in place.
Hopefully I'll have a quote for making this clip this afternoon.
Re: How easy it is to make a Field Stand? One for sale
This is an interesting post and I'm looking forward to the finished product..As this is going to be more accurately made than the original I'm inclined to fit one myself (I don't have any problem with good quality replicas)...
However, would it be possible to have a 'making a field stand 2' post?...With my rural internet connection speeds I'm having to wait for it to load!....Ian