I am not a member of any club or forum as yet, but have just returned from a trip to Zimbabwe to recover my late fathers WM20 which he restored to original condition in the late 70's. I had been looking for the bike for sentimental reasons for about 15 years and finally tracked down the owner in Australia. He had stored it in a factory outbuilding about ten years ago when he left Zimbabwe and had no idea if it was still there. Guess what? it was and preserved beautifully. Frame number WM20 4147 engine number WM20 447. It unfortunately has no paperwork so exporting it is not a simple operation. If anyone has any info on this frame number I would be delighted to learn more about it. My intention is to bring it to Ireland where I have a fantastic heated workshop to restore it to the original condition I remember it as a child and hopefully pass it onto my children one day. If anyone could help me with a valuation as I have to pay the Australian owner something, it would be appreciated. I can email photo's taken of its recovery and present condition.

email (option): landaer@gmail.com

Brad I'm interested in the Zimbabwe aspect! I lived in Rhodesia for a while and visited there several times since it became Zimbabwe.( My Farther is buried there) What town was it in? How did your recent visit go? How are you getting on with the authorities regarding exporting the bike. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

hi brad,

your frame number is 300 away from mine, which was an irish army contract.
do you know where he got it from?
chris

email (option): chris.astinbarker@btinternet.com

Zimbabwe is fairly chaotic, but has a great climate to preserve old machinery. Bike was stored in African Distillers Factory outside Harare, no corrosion at all! This is where many white farmers stored equipment when they were evicted from their land. I believe the management of African Distillers were in the hot water for that! Not 100% sure where my father got the bike from originally but have heard various stories, that is was in boxes, painted purple etc. I know he had to make a few parts and all the gaskets etc as no "new" bits would have been available during sanctions in Rhodesia.

email (option): landaer@gmail.com

Ron

Bike is still registered in my late fathers name even though it was sold 25 years ago!!Therefore a copy reg book is on its way. Hopefully this should be enough to obtain police clearance for its export.

email (option): landaer@gmail.com

Brad, there is no need to register here but you're now a member whether you want to be or not ! The only requirement is an interest in WD motorcycles and a promise to post lots of photos. We like pictures!

Regrettably both frame and engine are blank in the BSA frame and engine build books respectively. It is a confusing time at the factory and it looks as if they were supplying machines built from older parts to both civilian customers and rather oddly, the Royal Navy.

According to the engine book, engine number 425 was installed in matching frame WM20 425 on 14/9/1939. There is then a gap before the next entry - engine no.462 installed in frame no. WM20 4086 a year later on 5/9/1940 !

Looking at things from the frame book, the closest entry that I can find is Frame number WM20 4155 with engine 464 built on 22/8/1940.

My interpretation is that the War Office were asking for matching engine and frame numbers and after the initial WM contract, BSA had been supplying other users with non-matching numbers in the pre-war style. Because of this they started the next WD contract at WM20 5001 and then went back and supplied other buyers with engines from stock and newly numbered frames from the unused range.

Quite why yours exists with no record is a puzzle but these were hectic days in the factories - a few months after 20,548 motorcycles had been lost in France and with the industry working night and day to replace those losses. I can imagine it was quite possible that some machines slipped through the procedure.

Good luck with getting it home.

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

Many thanks Rik.

All info is appreciated, will post a few photo's in the next day or so.

Regs

Brad

email (option): landaer@gmail.com

rik,
have you got copies of the frame and engine books then?
chris

email (option): chris.astinbarker@btinternet.com

I might have some. Who wants to know ? What's it worth ?

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

Hi Chris,

The lowest number in the batch of Irish army bikes that your WM20 4516 came from was WM20 4461 and then they jumped up to WM20 4500, with Reg. ZD 3001.

Great to know there will be another WM20 out on the road again Brad, especially around this part of the world.

email (option): mickwalsh57@gmail.com

That's strange Mick, I wonder what the Irish authorities did with the rest of the bikes that they received ? Maybe used by other services ?

According to the factory records, they took a total of 174 machines during mid to late 1941.

WM20 4406 - 4455 (50) - 30/8/1941
WM20 4456 - 4505 (50) - 18/9/1941
WM20 4506 - 4555 (50) - 14/10/1941
WM20 4556 - 4579 (24) - 5/11/1941

Strangely, WM20 4501 had already (allegedly) been supplied to 'War Office London' on 14/9/1939 !

These Irish (and other small batches during 1940/41) were clearly using up unissued earlier numbers.

I've replied to Chris by the way regarding his own bike.

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

Hi Rik,

That`s great info. It will help me with my future research in the archive.
I think all vehicles used by the Irish army were registered in the Dublin Corporation registration records so it just means trawling through the ledgers and taking notes of engine and frame numbers.
All army, air corps, and navy vehicles would have come through the same system.
The Postal service had one M21 outfit, frame WM20 1999 and engine WM21 349 they also had a batch of BSA WC10`s
Mick

email (option): mickwalsh57@gmail.com