Hi
Myself and a friend both own WDM20's.
Our engine numbers are 114422 and 114473. Can anyone perhaps shed some light on where they were originally sent? I do know that they are 44/45 models.We have contract plates on the back mudguards but they are too corroded to read.

email (option): madgas@gmail.com

Hi Brandon, Its frame numbers which really matter.

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Hi Rob

Both bikes have matching engine and frame numbers.

Hi Brandon, neither bike is in the key cards, which I suppose only tells us they were sold off before the keycards were created in the late 40s.

I'm sorry there are very few other records.

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Oh Well, worth a try. Thanks Rob.

would they have had a key card if they were not issued to a unit but just sold off from the ordinance depot

Hi Roger. Every vehicle held by the British Army either on strengh with a unit or in a vehicle depot in the late 1940s was given a new WD registration number eg "AA99BB", and this was recorded on the keycards, then as they were sold off this information was added.

The known set of BSA M20 keycards has around 16,000 bikes listed out of 126,000 manufactured, so I assume over 100,000 were disposed of prior to this either by public auction, lost to accident or enemy action or given to Allied governments.

I believe the only other source of infomation is the BSA factory ledgers held by the VMCC Library, but I understand this is incomplete and only of real interest in the case of early war machines which didn't always have matching numbers and were still being supplied to dealers and Foreign Governments other than the War Office.

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Fundamentally, there is no certain way of knowing where machines were sent to. Generally it's a matter of piecing together clues such as post-war rebuild plates, where the machines were found etc.

Aren't you in South Africa Brandon ? If two bikes so close to each other from a late-war contract have turned up in the same vicinity, I'd suspect that they may have been sent there originally, unless you know that they were both imported from India for example.

It's not clear to me if the 'Key Cards' included machines which were outside of the European area. It would certainly seem a bit odd for two machines which by virtue of their matching numbers had not been rebuilt, should be 'struck off charge' within a few years of being produced when much older bikes were still in service.

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

Hi Rik

Yes i am in SA. 114422 was rebuilt into civilian trim (black frame, maroon tank, chrome rims). However the other one is still mostly original. I can only assume that they arrived in SA together, were then sold off. I just happened to join the classic bike club here and met up with the other machine by coincidence.
Thanks.

Hello all, I can confirm that the Key Cards have information on bikes sold all over the world:
Germany(B.A.O.R.) comes up a lot, Cyprus, Nortern Ireland (Long Kesh), Hong Kong, Singapore, Aden, Malta, Faraoer, Jamaica, Malaya, Tripoli, Gibraltar, there are more, but have not seen: South Africa, Canada, India, Australia, presumably the "big" Commonwealth countries had their own disposal system?

And various locations in the UK, where I'm doing more research on at the moment, for example what do these abreviations mean: FTM, ASC (Army Signal Corps), BVD, BER (Berlin?), GEO, MELF (Middle East Land Forces) CR.,HAL, U.N.E.F., FARELF (Singapore too? Signals?, CVD (Central Vehicle Depot?),CVD Irvine (Just googled this and CVD Irvine was an RAOC Vehicle Depot in the UK)


Let me know if you recognize anything, email below,

Lex Schmidt

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

Hi Lex, I think FTM is Feltham, BVD is Base Vehicle Depot.

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Does not make sense for the period, Lex, but UNEF, was also known as United Nations Emergency Forces in the Sinai.

email (option): unpob@yahoo.com

one of my bikes that is still army registered and sand coloured is a YE registration which is missing from the key cards maybe the YE regs were issued to middle east command and the key cards were disposed of out there i was told by the person i brought it from it was from the suez crisis but i dont have any real proof

Just a couple of thoughts. ASC would be (Royal) Army Service Corps (Signals would be possibly RCS or R.Sigs)

India was independent by 1948 so any machines there were outside of the British system prior to the new registrations.

Canada, Australia and New Zealand were not garrisoned by the British Army so although the bikes wore census numbers during wartime use by their forces, presumably arrangements were made for them to take over all stocks before 1948.

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

I understand when the Canadian Army went home from Europe at the end of the war all their transport was left at Deelen Airfield in the Netherlands from where it was sold off, although they presumably had some more at home for training and defence but on a smaller scale.

And a few M20s have turned up in the BSA keycards with tank serial numbers issued to Polish forces, so I assume they handed back their transport before returning home?

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Here are the ex Allied M20s I have found in the keycards so far.

According to the "Allocation of central census tanks & vehicles of "B" vehicle W.D. numbers".

Polish Forces 1288563-1293562
Norwegian Forces 1293563-1298562



Ex Polish 1 3 5 7 8 9
Ex Norwegian 2 4 6 10

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Hi
Anything in the key cards for my bike (wm20)?
Engine 18693
Frame 90139
thanks
Rich

I think you're right Rob that the allied forces took no machines home from Europe with them so it's a matter of who had machines at home or received them in separate post-war deals.

Canada had virtually no BSAs and they don't turn up there. The Australian army in the Far East and at home had plenty that must have been sold to them (or they'd already paid).

Did British forces in South Africa have M20s ? Maybe Royal Navy ? or did the SA Army have them for use at home ? That could best be researched on the spot, I'd think.

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

"Not much, but it's in the cards! sold off at Ruddington in 1955, C5123593"

Hi Lex, my reading of this card is sold off from WD storage at Ruddington 25/7/61, C5123539 Rob.

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Rob Miller

"Not much, but it's in the cards! sold off at Ruddington in 1955, C5123593"

Hi Lex, my reading of this card is sold off from WD storage at Ruddington 25/7/61, C5123539 Rob.

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

I only have one picture of BSA'a in South Africa, but Australia did dispose of the Bikes at home as shown below....

South Africa...



Perth Australia



Dead Storage, Australia 1946...





Wartime Salvage Yards, Australia 1943/4





Hope that helps....

I believe there is an article somewhere about the South African forces with a few more (fuzzy) BSA pictures, mainly ridden by women, as in my picture.

I wish I had a time machine to go back and buy a few bits, especially those armoured cars.... No parking problems then!!!

email (option): stinkypete80@hotmail.com

Great pictures, Staghound armoured cars and is that a Lynx scout car in the middle?

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk