I have quietly enjoyed today's quarter final matches. Anyone else share my unbiassed, non-chauvinistic view that the competition should be renamed the European Rugby World Cup - especially if Scotland win tomorrow? If Fiji and Argentina win, should not the SANZAR teams be required to go through preliminaries in order to qualify for 2011?
I have only 3 words for the All Blacks AND especially George Gregan "Four more years!!" Just waiting to offer the same to the 'Boks!!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 52-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

I'm quietly, deleriously happy here in Oz!!!!!!

And here in Tasmania too Trevor

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 43-46

Current location (optional) Tasmania

I notice the blind English Ref. was not mentioned Terry. I think there will be few flags flying from cars tomorrow.Cheers.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 47-51

Current location (optional) Auckland,NZ

What-a provocative statement on the board for about 7 hours and no one has had a go at me!!!!!!!!!! Seriously,the ref.made 3 bad calls (or didn't make a call at all),which directly affected the result.1/ the sinbinning of McAlister was not justified and 2/ late in the game the ref ignored a similar if not worse obstruction when the AB's were heading for the line,and 3/ he missed a blatant forward pass(by a good metre) which led to a converted try by the French.The refs inexperience showed through in the pressure cooker of the stadium in Cardiff.Sure he had a couple of touchies,I think,but they weren't much help to him.
Having said that,nothing can excuse the AB's poor handling,turning over of possession, failing to execute basics well, and not converting their 72% possession into points.Not withstanding the missed kicks at goal.So-they didn't deserve to win.
The post mortem is underway and coach Graham Henry is expected to resign or be shown the door later today,UK time.On our news this evening there were several AB supporters booked to fly out today for the semis and Final--they are devastated.Could talk forever on this.Cheers.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 47-51

Current location (optional) Auckland,NZ

Unfortunately, Bill, according to my NZ sources, the Kiwis have been talking about it for 4 years - and last night the talking had to give way to delivery - and according to most Kiwi opinion I have read (which accepts that refereeing decisions balance out) - the ABs lost it - because they choked - again! Cup rugby is a different game - the adventurous and the imaginative (even as underdog) often win games. The ABs played too much touch rugby in the Pool and started last night thinking that France would turn over and allow them to do that. The French lured them into a time-wasting kicking game that wasted time they could have used better. I've just watched the Fijians put the wotsits up the Boks - but they didn't choke the same. Blaming the ref is the last excuse in the book. I think the ABs and the Wallabies started with a disadvantage - they believed they would win and that the game would follow their match plan. They had no answer to a set of different factors that they had not worked into the equation - hence that prolonged spell of boring (both senses) groundhog forward play "expecting" what they had been told in coaching would bring a score.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 52-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

Come on Bill - McAlister's "obstruction" was a clear body check and the forward pass was only about a foot forward (like about 20 per cent of passes in modern international RU). The ref. had a really good game, with the exception of the obstruction you mentioned late in the game.
Back at kbgs Gilbert didn't give a damn about obstruction, body checks or head tackles but he was pretty hot on forward passes.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-65

Current location (optional) Leeds

You are right Terry,it has been talked about for 4 years,and 20 before that since it is 20 years since NZ first/last won the cup. This has been the biggest single project ever for the AB's and they blew it. Over $50 million invested in the quest, a precious ,protected group of players who were withdrawn from the Super 14 competition this year for "reconditioning"and to minimise the risk of injury. What happened? they went into the RWC under prepared,still suffered injuries,had a soft pool and no tough rugby.
The papers are full of it as you may imagine,but guess what? As I write this at 9am monday morning,the sun is shining. Cheers.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 47-51

Current location (optional) Auckland,NZ

It's not been a bad day here either, Bill. A little sunshine and sod all rain - in England. I was heavily in support of the Fijians who exposed the Boks as easily discomforted and suspect under pressure in simple handling and kicking skills. AND they played the best rugby. Sadly their recourse to the boring Roman testudo which failed the ABs bailed out SA.I hope the Pumas (more properly Jaguars!!) put the game beyond the Boks so that they don't resort to dull heavy tanktics.
Despite their fine handling and football skills, it has for as long as I can remember been a tactic of Southern Hemisphere teams to resort to the heavy disciplines when they were either matched or beaten for rugby's finer arts. This RWC has borne that out - and has produced some of the least attractive phases of play - with the ABs most guilty against France. On the refereeing issue - there always seems to be a problem for one of the teams when the ref is from the alter hemisphere. I have seen it work counter to the interests of northern hemisphere teams when the ref has come from downunderland. It seems that A reason could be that your refs main diet is the Super 14 - where it is clear that they are directed to get the game flowing - come what may - rather like the way rugby league has gone - sod the "niceties" of scrimmaging etc etc - get the ball moving. A worthy objective but when your refs ref our teams they blow up too quickly for slow ball using a crude rule of thumb and without consideration of what is going on in the ruck/maul/tight scrums. Hence the large number of points that Flatley kicked against England in the final of 2003 from penalties awarded by a Bok ref.I dislike the way "our" game is being taken from us and how the coaches are producing a "winning brand" that is becoming closer to the earlier versions of American Football - dummy runners who become blockers; unattached forwards on the fringes of loose play there to block defenders; feeding tight scrums (as a hooker I deplore this); flat passes that are clearly forward by the time the receiver catches it (ere long No 10s will be spearing throws to wingers standing on the opponent's line; and scruffy touchdowns requiring TV refs - which will in time lead to scores being awarded for simply carrying the ball over the line. We have to ask ourselves, Bill, who is responsible for these developments. My NZ contacts say that since the game has gone pro, it is becoming increasingly difficult to "manage" players and that discipline is out of the window. I'm still a Corinthian at heart - and I believe the game would benefit from an injection of Corinthianism.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 52-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

Hi Terry,the points you make are well made and your NZ contacts are quite right. It IS a different game since the big money has been chucked at it.The tinkering of the rules have not improved the game and already they have been tinkered with again for next season.
The public here are a bit shattered of course,as this had been built up as the best AB team ever and yet it has performed the poorest.It's about time these lads were treated as "football players" and not something special as in star quality.They are built up like film stars and are paid so much money that they believe they are important.In the amateur days of say 20 years ago, I remember talking with the AB no 8 Murray Mexted,whose father is a good friend of mine. After an AB tour to UK, Murray told me about his room mate on tour,a farmer from Southland. This lad was out of pocket on the tour as he had to employ someone to look after his farm in his absence,and spent hours on the telephone to his wife (at his expense) discussing the farm problems daily.Most of the current AB's have never had a job,straight into a rugby contract from school----.
Re the ref.---------I know that bad calls have a habit of evening out, but at this level,a bad mistake can cost a team thousands if not millions.Are the refs accountable for their mistakes? In the paper at the weekend the refs boss,Paddy O'brien,a Kiwi,said that he was pleased that no match had been decided by a bad call.Well this one was. The forward pass missed led to a 7 pointer and the AB's lost by 2 points.
Inspite of that, the team,any team, should be able to if they are good enough,beat another team on the day.In the second half,can you believe the French did not transgress ONCE----------- ? Our lads saw it slipping away,lost discipline and blew it big time.It won't be a happy time for them when they arrive home on Wednesday.The media,newspapers,talk backs,live tv,are all calling for heads. Rugby is now a huge business enterprise and they haven't returned on the investment.You know-the AB's programme over the last 3-4 years,aimed at winning the World Cup is around $50 million. The Fijians,Tongans and Samoans got there on a shoe string and donations-was there really that much difference in their performances and achievments? Phew---------- finis !! Cheers.
PS The AB's have missed out on a win bonus of $100,000 each.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 47-51

Current location (optional) Auckland,NZ

Does this mean the invested $50,000,000 budget will be reduced by $100,000 for each potential bonus recipient. If I were a shareholder I would expect that to be a sine qua non. Have you noticed, Bill, how the usual conditions and penalties expected of and exacted from we mere mortals are never exacted from the "good and the great"?
I take your point on the effing reffing - but to analyse the effects of all decisions made would require a minute analysis of each decision and its possible train of consequences. I agree that most "bad calls" that stand out above the rest are those with the most immediate and visible consequences. (Would you be a test cricket umpire with digital technology breathing down your neck?) A college team I played in lost a game because the ref imposed a tight scrumming rule of his own invention - and without the ball we lost. I always remember a comment I heard from an opponent at Headingley RUFC who silenced a team mate who had sounded off about the ref. "Shut up - without him you'd be at home gardening!"
I think you will be amused by the itinerary of the Wallies' return home. They couldn't get a direct flight from Paris to Oz - so they had to fly to ENGLAND to get a plane home!! Many Happy Returns.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 52-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

Steering clear of technical analysis of games (where I'd be instantly out of my depth!), questionable decisions, etc. I've been enjoying the current World Cup largely because of its unpredictable results.

There have, of course, been memorable moments and even the odd upset in previous tournaments, but there have simply been too few nations with the credentials to make the thing viable. Results have been all too predictable and it's been easy to pick most, if not all four, semi-finalists even before a ball's been kicked.

This time has been a bit different - whether that's down to the changes decried in this thread I wouldn't care to speculate, but it must be food for thought.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-65

Terry , if I owned a newspaper you would be my Rugby correspondent. Everyone I know was glad to see the humourless and unimaginative A.B,s beaten by a better team on the day. I wonder where they inherited this whingeing from ?
I would like to see the Argies win, and shake us all up a bit, and that includes England, otherwise it will soon be another form of American Football,played by numbers,and about as thrilling as paint by numbers .

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 41/46

Current location (optional) Isle of Man

Thanks, Peter. Would it be salaried, lineage or payment by results?

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 52-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

I have quietly enjoyed today's semi-final match in the RWC.I'm not bothered who wins tomorrow and comes up to the line next Saturday in the Final - England have the greatest incentive - to be the first back to back RWC winners! And as finalists for the third time, they have more experience at this level than their opponents. And not a disputed decision in sight!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 52-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

Totally absorbing Terry------ I have to say that I rate Kaplan as one of the best refs around today.I've seen him ref a few matches in NZ and he is OK. I also rate tomorrows(todays?) ref,Steve Walsh,(no relation).He's a local lad and I see him around occasionally. He has his critics but I think he generally does OK. I'm looking forward to getting up in the morning to watch the Boks v Argentina. It should be a cracker.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 47-51

Current location (optional) Auckland,NZ

I'm thinking of 'upgrading' my blood pressure pills!! And I'm going to be watching the Final from BEHIND the sofa!!!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 45-50

Current location (optional) Keighley

What a bonus, "doing" the Aussies and Frogs in succession - The stuff of which dreams are made!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-65

I think the result was contrary to the way similar games in this crazy RWC have gone. I don't think the RSA did the business to win - they fed on the gifts made by the untypical errors of the unfortunate Argentinians. I hope England will not make similar presentations in the final. Bill, we have seen your namesake reffing matches in the Six Nations. Apparently he has a bit of a record. In a Lions tour game, for which he ran the touch, he "sledged" the Lions Irish winger. I thought he gave too much latitude to the English speaking players tonight. He almost allowed RSA captain Smit to run aspects of the game. He should have allowed him one question - and then have told Smit to p**s off when he came back with supplementaries. By the way, What do you call the RWC 7th/8th place play-offs?

Answer - The Bledislow Cup!!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 52-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

I hope quietly to enjoy tomorrow's RWC Final. My preference for the outcome can probably be guessed. I have one concern about the game. The Boks can be one of the most cynical of international teams - as they have demonstrated with some frequency over the years. I am concerned that some young turk will feel it will bring glory to the RSA if he takes out Wilkinson - for the whole game.Should that happen, the game, as a sporting fixture, would be over.I hope to be proven wrong. May the best team - on the day - win.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 52-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

I have quietly enjoyed watching today's RWC final and am glad that the game was played in the real spirit of the game (Moody's trip apart). Both teams gave us a contest to remember and a result much closer than the score. However, I am still mystified by reffing decisions that a player is not releasing the ball - when it can be seen that an opponent is preventing the tackled player from so doing - on his feet or otherwise. I think this particularly applied when Tait was penalised - even though he had released the ball and a Bok player on the ground was on the England side of Tait and blocking the release of the ball.The ref could be clearly heard to say that he could see the man on the floor. (At that point the French groundsman should have been penalised for giving Tait a slippery surface to play on.) And the try that wasn't? Is there a case for the ref requesting assistance from the video ref for all the other issues that he does not clearly witness - as these sometimes have greater impact on the outcome of a game than the answer to the simple question "Is there any reason why I should not award a try?" Tonight his touch judge was clearly on the spot and on the case but unwilling to assist. All that aside, the Springboks can look forward to a post RWC honeymoon. And good luck to them.Pity they didn't give us the running game the Pumas allowed them to play.
I heard today that there is a working party studying possible changes in the rules so that the uninitiated (who pay big bucks to watch but don't understand the current game) could understand a reformed game more easily. The problem then would be that the game they currently enjoy would change and not be the same - and maybe even be more like Rugby League or American Football. But they can already pay to see those variants without changing the game we love.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 52-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

I think England deserved better, but by the same token I think SA deserved the win.
Am I correct in saying that if there is real doubt about a try being scored, and there obviously was going by the time it took to make a decision, then the benefit of doubt has to go to the attacking side. That try should have been awarded on those grounds.
If the 'obstruction - beautifully played by Os du Randt - was allowed against England and resulted in SA going 9 points ahead, then the obstruction against us later while we were in a strong position in the SA half should also have been penalised. Those 2 crucial decisions really went against us!
But - the ref. has to call it as he sees it - you win some you lose some!

I was wrong about the 'benefit of the doubt' rule. It's used here in Oz Rugby League but not in Union.
In the case you mention regarding holding the man with the ball, surely the tackler has already committed a foul as once the tackle is completed he has to release the tackle and the tacklee has to let go of the ball - correct?
I'm a tad vague on the rules as here in Victoria we are starved of good Rugby, in fact any rugby good or bad, it being an Aussie Rules State.

This site needs a little amusement.

What do you call 15 guys sitting around the TV watching the Rugby World Cup final?
The All Blacks

What’s the difference between the All Blacks and an arsonist?
An arsonist wouldn’t waste five matches.

Have you heard about the All Blacks new bra?
All support but no cup.

A man’s body was found in the harbour wearing an All Blacks jumper, pink panties,fishnet stockings and a dildo up his arse.
Police removed the jumper to avoid any embarrassment to his family.

Graham Henry ( All Blacks Coach ) found dead in hotel room, 4.5 million suspects.

Did you hear NZ Post has just recalled their latest batch of stamps?
They had photos of all blacks on them and people couldn’t figure out which side to spit on.

Four surgeons are taking a coffee break.
The first one says,
"Accountants are the best to operate on
because when you open them up everything inside them is numbered."
The second surgeon says,
"Nah, librarians are the best; everything inside them is in alphabetical order."
The third surgeon says,
"Try electricians. Everything inside them is colour-coded."
The fourth one says,
"I prefer New Zealand Rugby players.
They're heartless, spineless, gutless and their heads and bums are interchangeable."

Q. What do All Black fans and sperm have in common?
A. One in 3,000,000 has a chance of becoming a human being.

Q. What's the difference between a dead dog on the road
and a dead All Black player on the road?
A. There are skid marks in front of the dog.

An All Blacks Supporter was really down after the game on Sunday, so he rang Samaritans - got put through to a call centre in Pakistan, and told the guy that he was feeling depressed and suicidal.
The Pakistani got really excited and asked him if he knew how to fly a plane.

Woops.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-63

Current location (optional) Newport

No doubt you feel better after getting that out of your system Kevin. Actually,most of those went around here within 24 hours of the lost 1/4 final,just proving that Kiwis CAN laugh at themselves. Cheers.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 47-51

Current location (optional) Auckland,NZ