...discuss (100 words max). This one is for all you ex-teachers to have rant on about. But, seriously, I'm interested to hear what you think. My eighteen year old emerged unscathed from High School last year. Doesn't seem to have been assaulted by a flying board duster or cane. Doesn't seem to have been belittled by sarcastic remarks...doesn't seem to have been beaten up and bullied (too much...).
Didn't seem to get much homework either, and what he did get consisted of worksheets where you had to fill in the missing ___________(bird/word/turd).
That said, in forty years' time he probably won't be trying to make retrospective sense of schooltime experiences, as his old man does every time he visits this excellent site!

All I have to say is that no end of pupils these days(or "students", as they are now called) seem to mop up tons of A and A* (whatever that is)grades at GCSE. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the only lads who got top grades in everything in the 60s were so brainy they were verging on being mentally ill.
(With sincere apologies to those of you who got top grades in everything)

Well I'm not sure they have. Certainly the exams and the numerous tests have become less academically centred but I'm not sure things have changed for the worse. Judging by my own grandchildren standards are still high--for instance my grandson works hard in the subjects he likes best Spanish and music; he speaks Spanish better than I ever spoke German or French,excels in performance (piano, cello, percussion)and musical theory, and allied to this maths,but still manages to be a good footballer,cricketer and has a 13 golf handicap at the age of 15. My granddaughter likewise has a good mixture of academic and practical skills. They both manage to cram into the day an incredible mixture of work and play and are botn much more 'streetwise' at 15 and 17 than I was at 21.The world has changed and education has had to change to meet new demands. You can drop a subject if you don't like it or have no potential for it. You can take a total mixture of subjects at O and A level whereas I was derided for wanting to do Higher School Certificate in French,English and Chemistry.I never did of course because I was told I had to be either 'Arts' or 'Sciences'.They both hate History though and so dropped it early on.So they should have done, I guess, but both have no real concept of the importance of the past; this I regret but maybe we live in afuture-centred world.

An interesting discussion thread though!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) '40-'48

Current location (optional) Epsom

It is difficult to analyse, education is certainly different today.
My wife had a similar education to me and has since 1988 taught physics at a very high standard girls private school yet she certainly feels standards have dropped. One of the worst things that has happened is this business of taking six or so modules, which you can retake several times to improve your grades.
Also there is far more coursework, this is open to abuse, assistance, plagiarism etc.
Whilst her school doesnt have a discipline problem, in most state schools there does seem a lack of control now that corporal and other sanctions have gone. Strict discipline never did us any harm. But there is also less discipline within the family as well and I think at times parents are now too soft with their children.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-1964

Current location (optional) Wirral

All other comments notwithstanding or disputed, we are making these observations from our present standpoints. How would we have compared the achievements of today's 16/18 year olds with ours if we were still the same 16/18 year olds we once were? With admiration or disapprobation? What we forget is our knowledge and maturity have been enhanced in the school of hard knocks beyond recognition since we left kbgs.It is fatuous to compare the educational standards of mere kids of 16/18 who have yet to have those life experiences with our current grasp of knowledge and our present competences.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 52-60

I not only changed schools but also changed educational systems when I left kgbs in 1961 and started school in Australia. It was an eye opener. Private education was based upon the English public school system whilst public education was totally comprehensive, only in recent years has there been a return to selective secondary schools.

I feel almost blessed for my years at kgbs, they gave me such a good set of study skills that I was to pass my High School exams even though I was 2 years younger than my cohort. I used the same set of skills all the way through university.

As the Senior Counsellor for a College of Technical and Further Education, I continually hear from trades teachers about the falling standards of literacy and numeracy of their apprentices. In Australia we have gone along the economic rationalist/politically correct educational highway. Now students no longer fail, rather they "have not yet completed" a subject. It doesn't matter if they cannot spell, the computer has a spell checker, it doesn't matter if they get the answer wrong, just as long as they know the correct way to do it.

I'm sure I have gone beyond my 100 words, sorry, once I get on my band wagon

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-61

Current location (optional) Blue Mountains Australia

I suspect Allan’s motive here was simply to wind up any (ex) teachers, but here goes.
Standards of what? We represented the “top” 20% at KBGS – a horrifying thought. And those who went on to HE represented the “top” 5%. Hardy a valid comparison with the 40%-ish who go on to HE now. Having taught in 9 schools and supported teachers in over 100, I am confident that the quality of teaching is much better than in our day. Pupils are more engaged and the overwhelming majority of teachers actually like working with children (a thought that would have staggered 80% of the teachers at KBGS). And, contrary to Jonathan Cox’s assertion (Re: Joe Watthey’s Caning Technique) I’ve never seen a school that was ungovernable – the vast majority are calm, purposeful places.
However, I think there are 2 ways in which standards have plummeted. Firstly, education has become the plaything of politicians, and the chaos caused by at least 3 major changes of policy every year for a decade or more has taken its’ toll. And secondly, a large minority of children are now sent to school unable to sit still and listen, foul-mouthed and aggressive and with little desire to learn.
So, Allan, it’s not educational (teaching) standards that have plummeted, it’s the society we live in that has come to value brashness and ignorance.
Hey-ho, I think I’ll have a beer.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-65

Current location (optional) Leeds

I'd agree with most of what Shaun says, though I wouldn't agree with his statement that most schools are " calm, purposeful places." Sounds like a few words from a dreaded Inspection report. How anyone survives a career in teaching is ...well, many don't!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-66

" Strict discipline never did us any harm".No? I suppose it's the word "us" I object to.Things ain't what they used to be,eh,Brian!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-66

Shaun writes : "I suspect Allan’s motive here was simply to wind up any (ex) teachers, but here goes". Well, if the truth be told, my main motive was to kick start some discussion (any discussion) at a time, pre-FST's demise, when there wasn't much going on in the forum. That said, I was hoping that someone would say more or less what you said in the rest of your post, Shaun, namely that teaching, like every area of public service, has fallen foul of a lot of things that have nothing to do with the profession itself and have more to do with fashions in politics, trends in managerialism, prevailing standards and expectations in the shame and blame society we've somehow created for ourselves. It's not possible for teachers/nurses/social workers to spend 100% of the time practising their trade. They spend 50% of the time acounting for what they do,watching their backs, carrying out risk assessments and practising, in the end, defensively. As far as teaching and teachers go, I would have to say from my own experience of contact with my son's school, that (if not always a calm place), it was certainly a grown-up and consensual learning environment for the most part, with a wealth of resources that our KBGS teachers could only have dreamed of...

As far as comprehensive schools go, each has its own individuality. There's a danger of generalising about a " good learning environment." Management styles, teaching styles and abilities vary enormously ; the " personae" of students may vary from one school to another within a radius of ten miles, from one area of a county to another, and especially within a town/city. There is no doubt in my mind that there are many bad schools with teachers who have similar problems to some at KBGS.That's one thing that remains constant : the gap in ability to create an effective learning environment. That said, there are very many very effective teachers. Without wishing to go on too long, there always was at KBGS a clear distinction between those masters who tried to create a controlled environment through threats, verbal and physical, and the few who had my respect for achieving control by having that certain something which didn't require threats. I think the same applies today....basically. Poor Leeming, poor the man across town who dreads going in every day for fear of his lack of control and abuse hurled at him(her). It's that certain " je ne sais quoi" : they've got it or they haven't.(Then there's the in-betweens, plodding on).Just a view at a moment in time!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-66

Alan, you're right. Apologies for the OFSTED-speak. I'm trying to give it up. It's bad for your health and noxious to those nearby. We are ex-kbgs so let's replace "calm and purposeful" with "grand".

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-65

Current location (optional) Leeds

There are 365 days in a year or 365*24 hours or 8760 hours.
Schools are required to be open for just 190 days, the statutory number. A school day begins at 8-45am generally and closes at 3 pm or 6 and one quarter hours. Of that there is lunchtime and breaks which reduces the actual time spent in classrooms to about 5 hours. So 190 *5= 950hours. This means that a child spends less than 10% of their time in school. Or to put it another way a school has less than one tenth of the time available to it to impact upon a child’s emotional, intellectual, spiritual and physical well being than the rest of society has.
Given this and the powerful impact that society itself has on the child through family example and support or lack of it, peer pressure, media, less than helpful celebrity role models etc. etc. it has to be expected that schools are more and more unable to impact positively upon the younger generation.
The fact that they do impact upon children at all is to be applauded.
That aside for the moment, I like to think I did as well as I could at school but I was totally lost by my younger son’s chemistry paper and his geography paper although fascinating to read would have left me failing.
I am the Chair of Governors for a primary school, in a less advantaged area of the town of Keighley. The teachers work long and hard, well beyond the hours the school is open to the children. We have breakfast clubs, a Chill Club where tempers lost in the hurly burly of the playground are brought back under control and after- school activities.
Our standards are rising, although, more importantly our value added is very high, and attendance is close to the national average of 96% We serve a community that is of mixed ethnicity, nationality and religion, to the best of our ability and without applause.
Is education better than it was? I am not sure I only know that it is a more difficult job than it was even at Primary level but there are many hard working teachers out there who like me hope to spend their lives making the world a better place to live in. If they fail then it is this hedonistic, selfish, greedy society itself that is to blame and is undeserving of their dedication.

Well said Arthur, except for the bit that says "...EVEN at primary level..."

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-65

Current location (optional) Leeds