A doyen of Yorkshire dialect shared these revelations with me which may be of interest to Gareth.... "'Owt' is pronounced: 'o' as in 'off'; 'w' as the vowel in 'put' and 't' as normal." Try saying it a letter at a time and slowly increase the pace. He added "Only Southerners and off-comed 'uns pronounce it as in 'out'". So much for Droylsden (et al) and Coronation Street.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 52-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

As I suspected, there seems no easy way to explain to a foreigner by email how we pronounce "owt/nowt". A little research (Google) revealed this as a stab at it comparable to your friend's, Terry:

from YORKSHIRE FOLK-TALK Written in 1892 by the Rev. M.C.F. Morris B.C.L., M.A.
There are few vowel-sounds more difficult to pronounce than that in the common word owt (anything). This word is not pronounced as out nor as ought, nor yet as ote in wrote. The best indication I can give of the true sound is to say that it is about half way between ote and out. It is a very shibboleth. The pronunciation of the following short sentence would be no bad test as to whether a man is a native or not: Dust thoo knaw owt aboot it? (Do you know anything about it?)

Incidentally, I have since discovered that "When in doubt, do nowt" is a Cheshire and not a Yorkshire proverb.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 54-59

Current location (optional) Denholme

The accent of one's native land rests in the mind and in the heart as it does on the tongue.~La Rochefoucauld.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1953-58

Fifty years ago in my family and neighbours etc. the words "mind", "kind", "blind" etc. were pronounced as such but the word "find" was pronounced "finned". Was that an aberration or was it common throughout the town?

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-65

Current location (optional) leeds

When I was in the RAF many, many, many years ago I was of course Yorkie. But my Yorkshireness came out when I was incredulous about something or offended and I would say "Nay!" and everyone in hearing distance would shout " N-A-A-A-A-A-Y!!!!!". It didn't cure me though. I still do it. Arthur

Around my neck of the woods, Shaun, Blind was also pronounced as your find, as in "It's over(ryme with hover) theer,lad, is ta blind?"

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 55-60

Current location (optional) Harrogate

And "found" pronounced "fun" - as in "Ah fun it under a gooseberry bush".
Arthur, I gave away (ie revealed) my Yorkshireliness t'other week in the local. A fellow imbiber said what he'd paid for a meal somewhere. My jaw sagged as I incredulously gasped "Howw much!?"

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 52-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

One piece of advice my old feller gave to me was "a tuppenny pie costs fowpence when tha's married,lad"

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 55-60

Current location (optional) Harrogate

Yesterday evening my wife and I took my aunt to a concert by the Steeton Male Voice Choir at Bolton Priory. The church was full and my aunt really enjoyed the concert. As we were driving back to Keighley my aunt said "Ee, ther' wer' part fowk thier wan't ther". I'd forgotten that "part" means "quite a lot of".

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-65

Current location (optional) leeds

A fine example of deliberate Yorkshire understatement, similar to "middlin' o' fowk" or "a bit on a crah'd".

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-65

Current location (optional) Dudley, West Midlands

Going back, Shaun, to your post on "finned" for "find....
In the scouts we sang a song, with suitable Kegley accents

"We're all down in t'cellar 'oil
Wi t'mud slats on't winders
We've bu'nt all ar coil
And we're now bu'ning cinders.
When old 'Itler comes,
Ee nivver shall find'us
'Cos we're all down in cellar oil wi't mud slats on t'winders"

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

I remember that little ditty well,Terry. But we used to sing"muck slats". (unless it was just me).

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 55-60

Current location (optional) Harrogate

D'accord, Alec. It's the memory, tha knors. And you get to talking posh, an'all.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

Just reviewing this post and having a few fond memories revived.
Terry's ' How much??' makes me laugh as it is a favourite ploy of mine!!!
I love going into some swish shop like Harvey Nicks in Leeds and emquiring the price of something and responding with a shrill, 'HOW MUCH?????' it creates a stunned silemce in the store. I do it in Morrison's, Marks and Sparks, Boots etc too!! It is worth it for the look on the shop girls face.
Also I scare nurses when I have an injection sometimes by playing scared and squealing like a girl when they dab my arm with alcohol and then saying while I roll my sleeve back down before the needle comes, ' God , but that stung!!'
Hey!! I am 70 plus and allowed my moments also I can get away with it now. Arthur.

I've often used "HOW MUCH" when buying a pint down south, usually followed by"I don't want to buy the bloody place!"

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 55-60

Current location (optional) Harrogate

They might not see us coming, but they know when we've been.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

Aye, tha cn allus tell a Yorkshireman, but tha can't tell im much

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-61

Current location (optional) Blue Mountains, Australia via Haworth

When I was a lad, if I said something particularly perceptive (or should that read "pretentious") my dad would always say "You should have been a glass alley". Where does that come from?

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-65

Current location (optional) leeds

Glass alley----Isn't it a marble/tors- a clear see through job as opposed to the solid colours? Just thinking out loud! Cheers.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1947-51

Current location (optional) Auckland NZ

It's interesting what the internet has to offer, I was looking at the history of Yorkshire on Wikipedia and found this reference
http://www.viking.no/e/england/e-yorkshire_norse.htm

which gives the Norse origins of some very familiar words. (I cannot work out how to hotlink it, so cut and paste)

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-61

Current location (optional) Blue Mountains, Australia via Haworth

Thanks, John. Musing through has given (at least for me) my "colloquial slang" (as I thowt) some respectability, rooted as it seems in the natural evolution of language in our region. After reading The Wakefield Pageant many years ago, I became aware that some of the terms and pronunciation we used in Keighley and environs were not all slang and had their origins in an earlier form of spoken English. This reference adds another level of interest.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

All English 'counties' - and their subsequent dialects - that fell within the Danelaw were heavily influenced by Old Norse (including Lincolnshire)which, like Old English, is almost totally incomprehensible to modern English speakers, unless they have made a special study of the languages. So, Terry, I fear that though 'new' this 'level' will also be extremely limited in what it might yield. Having said that, there must be Yorkshire Dialect dictionaries around which will at least provide the etymology of many of the words that have come up in this thread.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1951-58

I undertstand that an experiment carried out by Leeds University in a dialectical survey found that a farmer from the Dales could converse with one from Jutland as long as they were talking about farming.

"Chelp and Chunter - How to Talk Tyke" by Ian McMillan

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 55-60;

Current location (optional) Harrogate

I was talking to an old Eastwood School pupil called Eric Helliwell, who is a few years younger than me and used to live in the Worth Village area of town. He speaks regularly with members of the farming fraternity and comes out with some typical 'Yorkshirisms',for instance:-
"Narthen Harry, owsta gowin on?" "Oh, Ahm noan farl" ('farl' meaning 'foul'- just like saying 'not so bad')
"Wot's yor lad doin today? "Oh, 'ees up at t'bahn knawping thirrups" Now there's a teaser for you, what is 'knawping thirrups'? Any ideas?

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1945-50

Current location (optional) Keighley(still!)

My father was brought up on a farm above Sutton and he had lots of words in his vocabulary which I never hear down this way. One of his phrases, used when I'd been a bad lad was, 'Tek care I don't knawp thi wi't thibble' By that, I knew that he intended to hit me with he stick he used to use to mix the 'hen jock'. So 'knawp' I'm sure means to hit. Thirrups? Could this be translated as 'turnips'. I remember that the farmers used to cut the crowns off swedes and turnips before slicing them in a hand operated machine to feed to the animals. The machine, operated by a large handle, was a favourite thing to 'laik' on whenever I visited my uncle George's Farm.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1945 50

Current location (optional) Norfolk

The Black Bull in Sutton was the headquarters of the Sutton-in-Craven Homing Society. Members met there regularly on Friday to ring the birds, clock them in and put them into baskets before taking them to Kildwick station from whence they were transported to far flung parts of the country. They were released the following day and on Saturday evening the Society members met again at the Black Bull with their pigeon clocks to ascertain who had won the race and distribute the spoils. My dad, was a member of the club for many years and was therefor a frequent visitor to the Black Bull.
About 1979 some ten years after my father died, I called in at the Black Bull for refreshment. It was lunch time [dinner time in Sutton!] and there was only one other client seated at the far end of the bar, a well built, elderly chap who by his appearance and distinctive farm yard odour, worked on the land. He greeted me as I walked in.
'Nathen'
I replied, 'Nathen then'
He took a swig from his pint, pushed his cap back, thowt a bit and said,'I s'ud knaw thee'.
'Should you?'
'Aye', and after a further pause for a drink and a think he said, 'Pickles'
'That's right'
Another swig and then he volunteered, 'Walter wor thi fatther'.
I told him that Walter was my uncle and that my fathers name was Charlie.
He seemed a bit put out, returned to his tankard, drained it and as he left the bar, he passed behind me, put his hand on my shoulder and said triumphantly,
'And Wil were thi' grandfatther! [My grandfather died in 1939!]
Using knowledge gleaned from a lifetime living and working in the village, he'd worked out my pedigree. I was impressed. And I haven't a clue he was.
Could such a meeting take place today?

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1945 50

Current location (optional) Norfolk

I enjoyed that story Dennis.Similar but different, in 2006 I was visiting an old farming friend, John Bancroft, also ex KBGS,on his farm on the edge of Brow Moor at Haworth. Somehow into the conversation came the name of another old farmer from Lees Moor, Cross Roads, who had moved to Haworth when he got married at the age of 20 and I hadn't seen him since, over 56 years later. John said something like "we can go see him now if tha likes," so we did, and drove up onto Haworth Moor to the place known as Sowden's farm, famous as the home of the Rev William Grimshaw. He knocked on Harry's door and when he opened the door he greeted John and looked me over as if to ask "do I know thi?"

John asked him "dunt na know this lad Harry?" "Should I?" asked Harry. "Aye tha should" said John. "Gimme a clue" said Harry.

Me-- "g'day Harry, I lived on't Barcroft and my dad was Raymond"

Immediately he came back with "It's Billy Walsh" and we were made real welcome. I called again last year and it sure is good to meet up with old family friends.To hear these two farmers chatting away using a lot of dialect was just wonderful for me who doesn't hear it these days, and I could follow every word.Cheers.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1947-51

Current location (optional) Auckland NZ

Two lovely stories from Denis and Bill, both of whom I have shared a pint or so, down at the Turkey Inn in recent years. Which reminded me of a more recent encounter at the same 'hostelry', when I popped down there for a quiet pint one Friday and bumped into a once near neighbour of mine at the bar, named Smith Butterfield, whose son, Geoff, played fullback for Keighley some years back. He had been out walking with a friend and they also, had called in for refreshment at the Turkey. After exchanging a few pleasantries he rejoined his friend and as they started to leave the premises same five minutes later to continue their walk, Smith stopped at the bar and said," David, this friend of mine says he was at School with you!!" I said " What, Grammar School?" He replied in the affirmatve and I asked him his name. "Shackleton" he said, and I blurted out,"Not Len-no he was Park Avenue, wasn't he?" As soon as he said,"Cyril", a picture of young teenage lad with black wavy hair, playing centre in the form matches at rugby, flashed up from memory bank. Cyril Shackleton! A lad(?)I hadn't seen or heard of for over 60 years and here I was shaking him by the hand and both of us trying to remember names of former classmates with big smiles on our faces.
Just a chance meeting at a local pub and it made my day! I'm sure Denis Pickles will remember him and maybe one or two other OB's from the mid-to-late 40's, may do also.
Whilst writing I may as well give you the answer to my ealier posting which was about 'knawping thirrups'. Most of you would know that 'knawping' means 'hitting' something. 'Thirrups'are 'cobwebs',so the lad was knocking down and/or clearing out cobwebs in the barn. 'Simples!'

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1945-50

Current location (optional) Keighley(still!)

I'm familiar with the term "knawping" as an expression from youth, but have never thought about its origins before.
Could it derive from "napeing" ie a means of despatching something, such as a rabbit, to the next life by means of a swift blow to the nape of the neck?
That doesn't seem appropriate to turnips or cobwebs though!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958 - 65

Current location (optional) Dudley, West Midlands

I had no trouble with knawping, David. When my first grandson came to see me I took him up to Peck Wood and before we passed the cave by the side of the road I told him there was a troll living in there and we had to pass carefully. To protect ourselves if he heard us we picked ourselves good sticks for 'troll-knawping' He believed it and to tell the truth I was half-way there myself. I tell a good story sometimes.

I came across another lovely, old Yorkshire word recently which I don't think has yet been included in this thread, and that is 'mawnt'(must not).eg " Tha' mawnt cum in 'ere wi' yer mucky bewits on".

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1945-50

Current location (optional) Keighley

I was talking to an elderly resident of Keighley last week and he was telling me how his keys had gone missing and he initially blamed his son ... "Ee, Ah played pop wi' mi lad til Ah funnem. It wer me worrad lostem." ... Played pop, a wonderful expression.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-65

Current location (optional) Leeds

Marlicking abaat wi' em no doubt.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1960-62

Current location (optional) SHIPLEY

"Am fair brusson" meaning too full of food after eating.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1959-66

Current location (optional) HAWORTH

Should be e not o

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1959-66

Current location (optional) HAWORTH

In most laguages, the 2nd person singular is a personal as opposed to a formal form of address, yet in Yorkshire, we rarely use the 2nd person plural, it's allus thee, thou, thy and thine

what about 'ye' and 'ye lot'

"Don't thee thou me,thee thou thissen an' see ow thy likes it"

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 55-60

Current location (optional) Harrogate

Teenage clubbers in West Yorkshire are using dental syringes to inject Ecstasy into their mouths

"E by gum"

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1959-66

Current location (optional) cumbria

I wish I hadn't mentioned this!

John, under the thread entitled "Featured photo etc." you said "I found that the trousers of my blues uniform were far too baggy and I reluctantly had to wear the pants I had been issued when I first received my commission at age 25."
Reminds me of another Yorkshire word - swank. Now where does that one come from?

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-65

Current location (optional) Leeds

Shaun, we used the word "Swank"a lot in the forties and my wife from Leicestershire says they too used it in a small country school. I may be wrong but I think it came over with the Yanks in the war. It is not used at all in Tasmania ,I have never heard it for years.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 43-46

Current location (optional) Tasmania

The OED is quite precise in its information about the word 'swank'. As a noun: 'ostentatious or pretentious behaviour or talk; swagger; pretentiousness'; first usage recorded 1854. As a verb: appropriate derivatives of all the above, and additionally, 'to pretend by one's behaviour to be something superior to what one is'; first usage 1809. From 1890 it acquired a further meaning of 'to work hard, to "swat"'. A slang term with no known, certain etymology. So it seems to be 'national' rather than Yorkshire.

My own recollections from childhood are of it being used as a direct reference to a person e.g. he's a swank, rather than what the first OED defn. suggests e.g. there's a lot of swank about him. 'Stop swanking!' was a common enough expression in my childhood.

Doug

I recall the RSM encouraging us in his dulcet tones to display "bags of swank" when marching up and down the hill many moons ago and this was certainly no-where near Yorkshire.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 55-60

Current location (optional) Harrogate

As chance would have it, this evening, reading Kynaston's "Family Britain" I came across a Mass-Observation report on Coronation street parties in London(p. 304) where the Investigator reports 'No expense spared... a huge swanky tea provided with all the works...'

I tangled with an RSM once, Alec. I had gone to the sergeant's mess to look for a friend. I wandered through the bar where the RSM happened to be sitting having his elevenses. He asked me in a very superior way what I wanted. I told him. He sent someone off to look for my friend and then asked me to wait outside! As I was about to exit the insult struck me. I turned, looked him in the eye and said "You pompous prick!" He turned scarlet - I thought he would die of apoplexy, and I rather hoped he would. I couldn't quite catch his words as I fled the sergeant's mess...

Doug

This reminds me of a story my late father in law (a Suffolk man) used to tell when he was in the army. One of his mates was a Yorkshireman called Harrison.

At parade one day the Sergeant, pulled him out.
'You , two steps forward !- whats your name?'

Harrison: 'Sir, 'Arrison, sir !

Sergeant: 'Oh yes 'Arrison, (mimmicking his dropping of aitches), 'ow do you spell that ?'

'Sir, a haitch, a hay, two hars and a hi, a hess, a ho and a hen Sir ! replied 'Arrison.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-64

Current location (optional) Wirral

"As chance would have it, this evening, reading Kynaston's "Family Britain"

I am also reading this and I noticed the quote count for KBGS has gone up to two. Asa Briggs is quoted in this volume, and of course Preston is quoted several times.

How many other grammar schools feature so prominently in a history of Britain?

Is this thread still running? Surely Bernard Johnson has enough material for his book by now!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1960-68

Current location (optional) Leeds UK

I don't remember "swanking" for my exams.I certainly had no cause for "swanking" after my exams

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

I recall maunt shortened to mun't as in "Tha mun't do that - or else!" Fatherly advice as I remember.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

Brian Moate;s tale about 'Arrison reminded me of a true happening in my service career. Pay parade was held in a hangar and we were split into two separate parades A-N and O-Z. The parade was about 10 mins intoit when a late comer came slippering quietly up the hangar to be spotted by the RAF Regimant sergeant in charge of the parade.
-Come 'ere , airman!
Offending airman came over and stood to attention in front of him.
-What's your name? he snarled.
-Phipps, sergeant, came the reply.
- Get in the F's, man, get in the F's.
Collapse of parade!!!!!

I though mun't was a further shortening of musn't from must not.

.......... and another army story related by my father. In Sutton at the outbreak of WW1 lived a young man by the name of Alfred Helm. He and several others went to volunteer for the army. They lined up in front of the recruiting sergeant and eventually Alfred was called forward. 'Name?', asked the sergeant. 'Alf Ellum' replied Alfred. 'Gormless b****r, I asked you for your name not what you're going to do to the b****rs.'

Well, I thought it funny when I first heard it!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1945 - 50

Current location (optional) Norfolk UK

All of this talk of Sergeants Major has brought back a flood of memories. When I was a very young Officer Cadet, even lower in rank than a 2nd Lieutenant, it was my turn to be Parade Commander. I did a simply cracking job, bags of swank to tie in the other bit of the thread, however, when the time came for me to march off the Parade Ground, I started to square gait. This is where you actually swing your right arm in the same direction as your right leg, and the same for the left. Try it, it is quuite uncomfortable and totally unnatural. The 2IC Parade was marching behind me and mumbled at me, "Jack, you're square gaiting and you're making me do it to." The RSM had the most incredulouos look on his face and bellowed at us both to get off of his parade ground and get out of his sight. We tried to stop squaring, but couldn't, the RSM was shouting louder, we eventually reached the edge of the ground and had to crawl along a ditch to get away from him.

For 29 out of my 30 years in the Army, I outranked Sergeants and Sergeants Major, but even so, I still felt a bit cowed by them. A couple of years ago I was stationed in Darwin and met the RSM of the regiment I was visiting and found myself calling him, "Sir."

As I get older, I find that it becomes increasingly more difficult to carry out once simple tasks such as wiring a plug or folding a fitted bed sheet. [Was folding a fitted bed sheet ever that easy?] Anyway as fiddled with trying to hang a pair of curtains the other day, I was minded of a saying used by my dad when he saw anyone struggling with something he could do with ease. He would say, 'Gi' that ter me! Tha's framing like a man med o' band!'
This post has had so many responses, I'm not sure whether this particular Yorkshire saying has been logged before. If it has, I apologise.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1945 - 50

Current location (optional) Norfolk UK

No, I don't think it has - though by extension of the image my brother-i-law's mother used to say of a skinny lad "He's like a man med o' band tied up wi string" but she was from Leeds.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

'E sounds waar na nowt.

In Keighley, or down our end, "saliva" was "slavver". Hence, bairns that were teething often were seen to be "slavvering".
Slavver was also used to describe unwelcome remarks or cheek. Hence - "I'll have none of your slavver" or "What's he slavvering on about?"

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Lincoln

I think Nintendo have a progging game - or they very soon will have. Or is it Wii?
Sorry!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Nirvana

People usually have suggestions for the origins of our Yorkshire words but I've never met anyone who has had a suggestion for the origins of "progging" Geoff.
Sadly we may not need to know because I haven't seen kids out progging for 25 years or more. It seems to have vanished, possibly as a result of the fashion for large organised displays and the disappearance of those small areas of unused land that were host to the many semi-official bonfire of our youth. There was a bit of land at the bottom of Fell Lane which, I believe, belonged to Knowle Park Congs and that was regularly used for a bonfire.
In some parts of Leeds today progging seems to have been replaced by TWOC-ing.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-65

Current location (optional) Leeds

After my initial harrumph about contemporary youth, I had a short Google and came up with the following. It would appear that the term may not be a dialect term of our times (ie either side WW2).
The following may be a start to get to the origin.

Progged — Prog Prog, v. i. [imp. & p. p. {Progged}. p. pr. & vb. n. {Progging}.] [Cf. D. prachen, G. prachern, Dan. prakke, Sw. pracka, to beg, L. procare, procari, to ask, demand, and E. prowl.] 1. To wander about and beg; to seek food or other supplies… … The Collaborative International Dictionary of English

prog — I. intransitive verb (progged; progging) Etymology: origin unknown Date: 1624 chiefly dialect to search about; especially forage II. noun Date: 1655 chiefly dialect food, victuals … New Collegiate Dictionary

prog — /prog/, v., progged, progging, n. Brit. Slang. v.i. 1. to search or prowl about, as for plunder or food; forage. n. 2. food or victuals. [1560 70; orig. uncert.] * * * … Universalium

After a couple of forays with the Kirky Camp advanced party, I rather like "forage".

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Nirvana

Good bit of research Terry !

It would also be a good word for another activity as well !

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-1964

Current location (optional) Wirral

Afraid you've left me there, Brian.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Nirvana

I always thought progging was a Keighley word but there you go. Interesting Keighley sells scones in fish shops but nowhere else is the term used for two pieces of potato with a bit of fish between. They are fish cakes elsewhere. Also cheggying seems a Keighley word also and blegging to get blackberries ( amongst other things).How widespread is the word scrumping?

I never heard as a boy "scrumping" used in Keighley. Lads round our way, probably including you, Arthur, went "appling"

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Nirvana

Scrumping was used around the Thirsk area in Nth Yorks when I was a lad on holiday at my uncles farm . Also the word was always used when I moved to Leicestershire in 49. Can't remember it used in Keighley but then there were no apples around where we lived to be scrumped

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 43-46

Current location (optional) Tasmania

Yes Arthur, scones are as you described. Fish cakes are made from mashed up bits of fish and potato squished together, bread-crumbed and deep fried.
If the rest of the world calls scones fish cakes, what do they call fish cakes?

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-65

Current location (optional) Leeds

When I worked in Pudsey, in the early 60s, they called scones 'patties'; the kids didn't go progging they went 'chumping'.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1951-58

In Queensbury, after all only about 10 miles from Keighley, we'd say:
"Chumping" rather than "Progging", which (to my shame?) I encountered for the first time on this thread;
"Blegging"(also "Bleggies" for blackberries themselves);
"(Fish)Cakes" for your "Scones" described by Arthur, although it seems most regions adopt Shaun's definition of that particular "chip 'oyle" delicacy.

"Scrumping" is a term so frequently bandied about these days that I can't honestly remember where I first encountered it!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-65

Current location (optional) Dudley, West Midlands

"Chumping" is interesting. A relative from Wakefield (way back when I was a lad) used the term "jumping" (for progging) which I think was then fairly widely used in Sth Yorks.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Nirvana

Another alternative we used a lot was "plotting", its origin being obvious. The bonfire itself was generally referred to as "our plot" and Nov.5th itself as "plot night".
We had much more fun playing mischief on the evening of Nov.4th in those days of course, but there doesn't seem to have been any such tradition in the West Midlands where I now live. Is it still alive around Keighley, or is it largely replaced by that tedious "trick or treat" of American origin?

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-65

Current location (optional) Dudley, West Midlands

We used to have a bakery and my grannie made a short pastry filled with currants (a bit like eccles cakes) and sold them as scones, while scones not a bit like my grannie's are now served with jam and cream for a cream tea. She also baked something called a crackney which was sweet mixture that were baked flat.

My mother baked crackneys - I don't think owt much of nutrition went into them in the early '40s - Perhaps we ought to tell the up-and-comings about rationing and it's effect on daily life and health. There were no obese kids then with expensive Apple toys to induce introversion

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Nirvana

Me mam still makes both.
The pastry with just currants is Eccles Cake, but me dad calls it Fly Cake. When shredded mint leaves are added it's Crackney.
By the way, did you hear about the chap that drowned in a bowl of muesli - a strong currant pulled him in!

Ah but not only did Mum/Gran make Crackney, these just had currents, and were hardish in texture, more like a biscuit. Mint and Currant Pasty was two layers of softer pastry with mint and current inside. Delicious !

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-1964

Current location (optional) Wirral

>> these just had currents

high or low voltage?

Strange I thought I had corrected it to currant, but looks like I only did the first one.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-1964

Current location (optional) Wirral

Currant pasty, still a favourite of mine , had a slice last night My wife puts Currants, Butter and Vanilla essence and leaves out the sugar . Delicious!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 43-46

Current location (optional) Tasmania

John Waddington Feather sent me this. It's worth 5 minutes listening time and a good laugh. John says it's "black Yorkshire humour". Whatever does he mean?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00ld1st

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Nirvana

Sorry, folks.
My mistake and I don't seem to have a solution!

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Nirvana

Hope this works = 'ev tried it sow it shud

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2AcJSkUw6M

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Nirvana

Can you bear a little more on progging? I was fascinated to learn from Brian that “Chumping” was used in Queensbury because a couple of miles northwest in Denholme the word was “Progging”. Other Queensbury friends have confirmed that “Chumping” was used and others Googled have spoken of other boarders between the two usages:
“I always referred to obtaining combustibles for Bonfire Night as chumping - that was Calverley. But a mile down the road in Greengates, foreign territory of Bradford, it was called "progging".”
“.. you can tell that my wife came from the opposite side of Bradford to me because when we
went to collect wood for Guy Fawkes night we went "chumping" and she went
"progging".”

All of Keighley seemed to be “Progging” but what about further north? I would like to plot the area in which this word was used.
So far (from Google and friends) I have the following:
PROGGING(Plotting, Plogging, etc.): Keighley, Denholme, Greengates, Windhill
CHUMPING(Jumping, Chubbing, Chomping, etc): Queensbury, Grange, Huddersfield, Northowram, Wakefield, Calverley, Leeds; Derby!
COB-COALING: Oldham

The experts on childlore (I&P Opie) knew nothing of “Progging” in 1959 and thought the Yorkshire-wide term was “Chumping”. Oddly the OED does not list “Chump” or “Chumping” but does have “Prog” – “to gather up fuel for a bonfire on Nov. 5th.”, though only via the English Dialect Dictionary.

If any of you can confirm, contradict or add anything to these findings could you email me being as specific as possible as to date and place of use. (garethwhittaker99@hotmail.com)
Thanks

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1954-59

Current location (optional) Denholme

Masterly, Gareth.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Nirvana

We allus went proggin' in Haworth. It wasn't restricted to tree branches either, frequestly you would see furniture on the bonfire. I often wonder how many valuable antiques were lost in this way.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-1961

Snowing nicely now but this morning there was a brief flurry which barely whitened the ground. Reminded me of what my father would have said - Well that wa'n't worth waitin' up fo'. This was used for anything that was more disappointing than something that was "summat or nowt".

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-65

Current location (optional) Leeds

I remember my dad saying "it woh neether nowt nor summat". Same thing,Shaun?

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Nirvana

Much enjoyed reading through this section but can't add much. Has anyone mentioned "think on" meaning "take note" as a general admonition. Or "Nah then" as a greeting.With regard to Scandinavian origins of dialect words I remember my mam who was born in Earby telling me about an old farmer who when asked directions to somewhere said "Gang up 'ither till tha sees a white yat and a track as folks have made" The "gang" and "yat" are obviously the operative words cf, German gehen,gang,gegangen etc and "yat" which I think is Swedish for gate.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1940-48

Current location (optional) Epsom

Just re-reading this thread and came across a query about 'raffle-coppin'. It is a Craven District dialect word, so from somewhere over Skipton way. To 'raffle' is to spend one's life in idle pursuits; to lead a loose disorderley life and is probably related to ravel, meaning to tangle in a disorderly manner. A raffle-coppin is a disorderly blade, a wild fellow close to ragamuffin. It is easily 'Googled' and one finds other interesting words on the site.

Nice one, Tom. I remember my mother in hysterics when my dad told her of a chance meeting with a colleague.

"I met him down *#*#*# street .

He said 'Nah then!'

I said ' Nah then, then!'

Can't imagine how you reply to that.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1952-60

Current location (optional) Nirvana

Suited (as in " 'e were reight suited when 'is Grandad giv 'im two bob")
= pleased.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-65

Current location (optional) Leeds

Yon woman 'as a gob like a torn clog (ie talks too much)

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-64

Current location (optional) Wirral

Sweets were sometime called 'spice'. As in 'Has ta getten any spice?'

After KGBS I went to agricultural college, and worked on farms around Silsden in the holidays. One instruction before some tractor-driving task was 'Na think on, tha mun nobbut gan reight pratla'. Which being translated, means 'Remember, proceed cautiously and circumspectly'. Or something like that.

Another piece of agricultural economic wisdom was 'Osses are cheap when they're working, and expensive when they're laiking, and tractors is t'other road abaht'.

Someone who was experiencing some of life's vicissitudes was said to be 'Noan in a reight good seam' - this last word being pronounced with two syllables, naturally. My mother and dad hailed from Wakefield and Burnley respectively (what in Silsden were referred to derisively as 'off-cummed 'uns), so this may reflect the local mining industries.

Someone trying to keep the peace amongst warring family members was 'Keeping t'cart ont wheels' or 'keeping t'band int nick'.

And someone thought to be not entirely sane or rational was often described as 'a shakken devil'. We had quite a few of those in Silsden!

Referring to Brian's previous posting, one of the local 'torn clog' women was memorably referred to as 'Joyce the voice'.

Many years ago there was transport cafe alongside the main road in Steeton. (this was told by my dad, so it must be true). A new driver on heating oil deliveries parked up, and was wondering around trying to find the oil tank. He was spotted by the proprietor.
'What's tha after, lad?'
''eating oil'.
'Ower this way'
.. and he took the driver into the cafe (the eating hoil).

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1957 - 62

Current location (optional) Rochdlae

That lass 'as two backs ! (ie she is flat chested)

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 58-64

Current location (optional) Wirral

I still occasionally use "keep band int nick expression" Andrew. My NZ wife does not have a clue what I am on about. I do it on purpose of course, if I am in the mood, just for a bit of fun and she might respond with, "don't you start speaking Yorkshire here, you are in New Zealand now!" Cheers.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1947-51

Current location (optional) Auckland New Zealand

Never come across the term "Shakken Devil" before. I was more used to hearing such unfortunates referred to as being "a bit short" (such as "elevenpence ha'penny to t'bob") or, in more extreme cases, "three sheets to t'wind" (presumably of nautical origin).

I assume "keepin' t'band i't'nick" to have originated in factories (most likely textile), where, when things went amiss, the belt had a tendency to come off its respective pulley on the overhead drive shaft. Someone out there may have a more confirmed explanation, however.

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-65

Current location (optional) Dudley, West Midlands

When anyone seemed to be particularly incompetent my dad's favourite expression was "Nay, 'e's like a man med o' band."

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-65

Current location (optional) Leeds

I well remember being the subject of that particular description, Shaun!
Another one was, "Tha'rt up an' dahn like a big silly lass".

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1958-65

Current location (optional) Dudley, West Midlands

I too remember being upbraided, when not jumping immediately to some task, with "Frame thissen - tha's like a man med o' band"

I need to put more thought into my definition of "shakken". This was not aimed at those of reduced mental capacity, but rather people (usually young males) showing wild, irresponsible, and antisocial tendencies, with a predilection for unjustified risk-taking. Speeding motorists and bikers were a frequent target, also those (in those pre-H&S days) adopting dangerous, short-cut working practices. If you've ever seen the 50's film "Hell Drivers" (showing nightly at the Silsden Picture House), you'll know exactly the sort of character I mean.

Their views were frequently dismissed with "Oh 'im? 'E's bloody shakken!"

I've never seen the word in print, although it was in common use at the time. The spelling might well be "shacken". It might be a derivation of "shaken"?

Years at KBGS e.g. 1958-1964 (optional) 1957 - 62

Current location (optional) Rochdlae