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When I was in the RAF many, many, many years ago I was of course Yorkie. But my Yorkshireness came out when I was incredulous about something or offended and I would say "Nay!" and everyone in hearing distance would shout " N-A-A-A-A-A-Y!!!!!". It didn't cure me though. I still do it. Arthur
And "found" pronounced "fun" - as in "Ah fun it under a gooseberry bush".
Arthur, I gave away (ie revealed) my Yorkshireliness t'other week in the local. A fellow imbiber said what he'd paid for a meal somewhere. My jaw sagged as I incredulously gasped "Howw much!?"
Yesterday evening my wife and I took my aunt to a concert by the Steeton Male Voice Choir at Bolton Priory. The church was full and my aunt really enjoyed the concert. As we were driving back to Keighley my aunt said "Ee, ther' wer' part fowk thier wan't ther". I'd forgotten that "part" means "quite a lot of".
In most laguages, the 2nd person singular is a personal as opposed to a formal form of address, yet in Yorkshire, we rarely use the 2nd person plural, it's allus thee, thou, thy and thine
John, under the thread entitled "Featured photo etc." you said "I found that the trousers of my blues uniform were far too baggy and I reluctantly had to wear the pants I had been issued when I first received my commission at age 25."
Reminds me of another Yorkshire word - swank. Now where does that one come from?
Shaun, we used the word "Swank"a lot in the forties and my wife from Leicestershire says they too used it in a small country school. I may be wrong but I think it came over with the Yanks in the war. It is not used at all in Tasmania ,I have never heard it for years.
The OED is quite precise in its information about the word 'swank'. As a noun: 'ostentatious or pretentious behaviour or talk; swagger; pretentiousness'; first usage recorded 1854. As a verb: appropriate derivatives of all the above, and additionally, 'to pretend by one's behaviour to be something superior to what one is'; first usage 1809. From 1890 it acquired a further meaning of 'to work hard, to "swat"'. A slang term with no known, certain etymology. So it seems to be 'national' rather than Yorkshire.
My own recollections from childhood are of it being used as a direct reference to a person e.g. he's a swank, rather than what the first OED defn. suggests e.g. there's a lot of swank about him. 'Stop swanking!' was a common enough expression in my childhood.
I recall the RSM encouraging us in his dulcet tones to display "bags of swank" when marching up and down the hill many moons ago and this was certainly no-where near Yorkshire.
As chance would have it, this evening, reading Kynaston's "Family Britain" I came across a Mass-Observation report on Coronation street parties in London(p. 304) where the Investigator reports 'No expense spared... a huge swanky tea provided with all the works...'
I tangled with an RSM once, Alec. I had gone to the sergeant's mess to look for a friend. I wandered through the bar where the RSM happened to be sitting having his elevenses. He asked me in a very superior way what I wanted. I told him. He sent someone off to look for my friend and then asked me to wait outside! As I was about to exit the insult struck me. I turned, looked him in the eye and said "You pompous prick!" He turned scarlet - I thought he would die of apoplexy, and I rather hoped he would. I couldn't quite catch his words as I fled the sergeant's mess...
This reminds me of a story my late father in law (a Suffolk man) used to tell when he was in the army. One of his mates was a Yorkshireman called Harrison.
At parade one day the Sergeant, pulled him out.
'You , two steps forward !- whats your name?'
Harrison: 'Sir, 'Arrison, sir !
Sergeant: 'Oh yes 'Arrison, (mimmicking his dropping of aitches), 'ow do you spell that ?'
'Sir, a haitch, a hay, two hars and a hi, a hess, a ho and a hen Sir ! replied 'Arrison.
"As chance would have it, this evening, reading Kynaston's "Family Britain"
I am also reading this and I noticed the quote count for KBGS has gone up to two. Asa Briggs is quoted in this volume, and of course Preston is quoted several times.
How many other grammar schools feature so prominently in a history of Britain?
Brian Moate;s tale about 'Arrison reminded me of a true happening in my service career. Pay parade was held in a hangar and we were split into two separate parades A-N and O-Z. The parade was about 10 mins intoit when a late comer came slippering quietly up the hangar to be spotted by the RAF Regimant sergeant in charge of the parade.
-Come 'ere , airman!
Offending airman came over and stood to attention in front of him.
-What's your name? he snarled.
-Phipps, sergeant, came the reply.
- Get in the F's, man, get in the F's.
Collapse of parade!!!!!
.......... and another army story related by my father. In Sutton at the outbreak of WW1 lived a young man by the name of Alfred Helm. He and several others went to volunteer for the army. They lined up in front of the recruiting sergeant and eventually Alfred was called forward. 'Name?', asked the sergeant. 'Alf Ellum' replied Alfred. 'Gormless b****r, I asked you for your name not what you're going to do to the b****rs.'
All of this talk of Sergeants Major has brought back a flood of memories. When I was a very young Officer Cadet, even lower in rank than a 2nd Lieutenant, it was my turn to be Parade Commander. I did a simply cracking job, bags of swank to tie in the other bit of the thread, however, when the time came for me to march off the Parade Ground, I started to square gait. This is where you actually swing your right arm in the same direction as your right leg, and the same for the left. Try it, it is quuite uncomfortable and totally unnatural. The 2IC Parade was marching behind me and mumbled at me, "Jack, you're square gaiting and you're making me do it to." The RSM had the most incredulouos look on his face and bellowed at us both to get off of his parade ground and get out of his sight. We tried to stop squaring, but couldn't, the RSM was shouting louder, we eventually reached the edge of the ground and had to crawl along a ditch to get away from him.
For 29 out of my 30 years in the Army, I outranked Sergeants and Sergeants Major, but even so, I still felt a bit cowed by them. A couple of years ago I was stationed in Darwin and met the RSM of the regiment I was visiting and found myself calling him, "Sir."
As I get older, I find that it becomes increasingly more difficult to carry out once simple tasks such as wiring a plug or folding a fitted bed sheet. [Was folding a fitted bed sheet ever that easy?] Anyway as fiddled with trying to hang a pair of curtains the other day, I was minded of a saying used by my dad when he saw anyone struggling with something he could do with ease. He would say, 'Gi' that ter me! Tha's framing like a man med o' band!'
This post has had so many responses, I'm not sure whether this particular Yorkshire saying has been logged before. If it has, I apologise.
No, I don't think it has - though by extension of the image my brother-i-law's mother used to say of a skinny lad "He's like a man med o' band tied up wi string" but she was from Leeds.
In Keighley, or down our end, "saliva" was "slavver". Hence, bairns that were teething often were seen to be "slavvering".
Slavver was also used to describe unwelcome remarks or cheek. Hence - "I'll have none of your slavver" or "What's he slavvering on about?"
Much enjoyed reading through this section but can't add much. Has anyone mentioned "think on" meaning "take note" as a general admonition. Or "Nah then" as a greeting.With regard to Scandinavian origins of dialect words I remember my mam who was born in Earby telling me about an old farmer who when asked directions to somewhere said "Gang up 'ither till tha sees a white yat and a track as folks have made" The "gang" and "yat" are obviously the operative words cf, German gehen,gang,gegangen etc and "yat" which I think is Swedish for gate.
Just re-reading this thread and came across a query about 'raffle-coppin'. It is a Craven District dialect word, so from somewhere over Skipton way. To 'raffle' is to spend one's life in idle pursuits; to lead a loose disorderley life and is probably related to ravel, meaning to tangle in a disorderly manner. A raffle-coppin is a disorderly blade, a wild fellow close to ragamuffin. It is easily 'Googled' and one finds other interesting words on the site.
Sweets were sometime called 'spice'. As in 'Has ta getten any spice?'
After KGBS I went to agricultural college, and worked on farms around Silsden in the holidays. One instruction before some tractor-driving task was 'Na think on, tha mun nobbut gan reight pratla'. Which being translated, means 'Remember, proceed cautiously and circumspectly'. Or something like that.
Another piece of agricultural economic wisdom was 'Osses are cheap when they're working, and expensive when they're laiking, and tractors is t'other road abaht'.
Someone who was experiencing some of life's vicissitudes was said to be 'Noan in a reight good seam' - this last word being pronounced with two syllables, naturally. My mother and dad hailed from Wakefield and Burnley respectively (what in Silsden were referred to derisively as 'off-cummed 'uns), so this may reflect the local mining industries.
Someone trying to keep the peace amongst warring family members was 'Keeping t'cart ont wheels' or 'keeping t'band int nick'.
And someone thought to be not entirely sane or rational was often described as 'a shakken devil'. We had quite a few of those in Silsden!
Referring to Brian's previous posting, one of the local 'torn clog' women was memorably referred to as 'Joyce the voice'.
Many years ago there was transport cafe alongside the main road in Steeton. (this was told by my dad, so it must be true). A new driver on heating oil deliveries parked up, and was wondering around trying to find the oil tank. He was spotted by the proprietor.
'What's tha after, lad?'
''eating oil'.
'Ower this way'
.. and he took the driver into the cafe (the eating hoil).
I still occasionally use "keep band int nick expression" Andrew. My NZ wife does not have a clue what I am on about. I do it on purpose of course, if I am in the mood, just for a bit of fun and she might respond with, "don't you start speaking Yorkshire here, you are in New Zealand now!" Cheers.
Never come across the term "Shakken Devil" before. I was more used to hearing such unfortunates referred to as being "a bit short" (such as "elevenpence ha'penny to t'bob") or, in more extreme cases, "three sheets to t'wind" (presumably of nautical origin).
I assume "keepin' t'band i't'nick" to have originated in factories (most likely textile), where, when things went amiss, the belt had a tendency to come off its respective pulley on the overhead drive shaft. Someone out there may have a more confirmed explanation, however.
I too remember being upbraided, when not jumping immediately to some task, with "Frame thissen - tha's like a man med o' band"
I need to put more thought into my definition of "shakken". This was not aimed at those of reduced mental capacity, but rather people (usually young males) showing wild, irresponsible, and antisocial tendencies, with a predilection for unjustified risk-taking. Speeding motorists and bikers were a frequent target, also those (in those pre-H&S days) adopting dangerous, short-cut working practices. If you've ever seen the 50's film "Hell Drivers" (showing nightly at the Silsden Picture House), you'll know exactly the sort of character I mean.
Their views were frequently dismissed with "Oh 'im? 'E's bloody shakken!"
I've never seen the word in print, although it was in common use at the time. The spelling might well be "shacken". It might be a derivation of "shaken"?
Hi Shaun, a furtherance of the man made o' band was the addition "tied up wi string."
I well recall the use of the term "shook" to describe a person of questionable sanity or normality.
Returning to Bernard's post on Jul 28, 2007 - my sense of the word "nark" was of someone who was a persistent irritant (the manager who was never satisfied with the job etc.) rather than simply someone who bemoaned his own lot. Was this how others viewed the term or did they apply it to any moaner?
Not sure about "bemoaned his own lot". Rather just moaned a lot.
Reminds me of a word I've been meaning to ask about: did anyone use the term "nerks" (? "nurks") to mean chips? I've never heard it used anywhere but my own village and even there not for about 50 years.
Was surprised a few years ago to be behind an old fella in Greggs, Headingley. He finishes his request with '.....and gie us a couple o' growlers as well' She certainly knew what he meant. Do you ? In fact it prompted me to have one too. Theres nowt like a decent growler.
Could it be because they caused an intestinal rumble?
There wer some grand growler (pieces of growler) available in the buffet at the recent (yesterday) kbgs reunion - another success down to Doug Thompson.
Get thissens theer next year - numbers are falling due to Annie Domini and it would be a shame that fewer Keighlians than hitherto fore enjoy the fleshpots so tastefully served up at this annual event.
There wer some grand growler (pieces of growler) available in the buffet at the recent (yesterday) kbgs reunion - another success down to Doug Thompson.
I wouldn't be brave enough to tell you what a growler is down this part of the world! Pleased to hear that the re-union went off well and look forward to seeing a few pics soon. Cheers.
As far as I'm aware there has only ever been one mention on this site (by Dave Baldwin) of the scrattin' shed at KRLFC. When I was a child it just seemed part of our language. I assumed scrattin' sheds were everywhere (whatever they were).
My father said it was Keighley for "scratching shed". But what did that mean?
Can anyone enlighten me as to the origin of the term, and why it should be used at a RL ground?
There's a scratting shed at Wharfedale RUFC - is this a common name for the basic weather shelter provided for loyal supporters who prefer to provide an afternoon of shrewd advice to the ref in contrast to the more refined comments from the 'stand'?
I don't know the answer to Shaun's question but I suspect it could be a transfer of usage from agricultural to sporting events - although there was a theatre (flicks) in Batley with a scratting shed.
A cry that came out from Lawkholme's scratting shed was - "come on the steam pigs" - ie a hot scrum on a frosty day
As a lifelong poultry farmer, a "Scrattin" shed would be just that ,a covered ,dry , shed, for the old hens to "Scrat" about in .No doubt Agricultural origin.