I have already shared this with Valerie and Texas Sue, and now I'm going to share it with the forum as well. I'm going to post the following passages out of both the New American Standard Bible and the New International Version--each set, back to back--followed by their study notes at the bottom of the NIV pages. Then I'll share with you my thoughts.

First, Romans 8:23:

And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. (NASB)

Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. (NIV)

8:23 firstfruits of the Spirit. The Christian's possession of the Holy Spirit is not only evidence of his present salvation (vv. 14, 16) but is also a pledge of his future inheritance--and not only a pledge but also the down payment on that inheritance (see 2Co 1:22; 5:5; Eph 1:14). adoption as sons. See note on v. 15. Christians are already God's children, but this is a reference to the full realization of our inheritance in Christ. redemption of our bodies. The resurrection, as the final stage of our adoption. The first stage was God's predestination of our adoption (see Eph 1:5); the second is our present inclusion as children of God (see v. 14; Gal 3:26).

Next, Ephesians 1:13-14:

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory. (NASB)

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. (NIV)

1:13 And you also. Probably refers to the majority of the Ephesians, who were Gentiles. marked...with a seal. In those days a seal denoted ownership.

1:14 deposit. See note on Ro 8:23.

And last, Ephesians 4:30:

Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (NASB)

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (NIV)

4:30 grieve. By sin, such as "unwholesome talk" (v. 29) and the sins mentioned in v. 31. The verb also demonstrates that the Holy Spirit is a person, not just an influence, for only a person can be grieved. sealed. See note on 1:13. day of redemption. See 1:14; 1Pe 1:5 and notes.

Don't you see, everyone? The Holy Spirit not only dwells in us, as it says elsewhere in the New Testament, but He also seals us and acts as our security deposit, so to speak. He has sealed us for the day of redemption. As our deposit, our pledge, He guarantees our inheritance. The seal shows that we belong to God and that He owns us, and as the security deposit, the Holy Spirit is our down payment on the completion of our salvation, which will take place when God gives us our glorified bodies. When He does that, He will redeem our bodies, having already redeemed our souls. We are His possession and He will finish our redemption when that day arrives. The Old Testament saints weren't so lucky. The Holy Spirit could come on them, but by the same token, He could also leave them, just as He left Saul. The Tribulation saints won't be so lucky, either. We, the Church, have a unique privilege, because the Holy Spirit has indwelled us, sealed us, and become our deposit, pledge, and down payment on an inheritance that's guaranteed to be ours. And best of all, we're going to be taking possession of that inheritance any time now--maybe even literally any day now!!

How's that for security? Because the Holy Spirit has sealed and indwelled us, because He's our pledge, deposit, and down payment of our inheritance, God is not going to cast us out. He's going to hold onto us until He sends Jesus to bring us Home in the Rapture. And then He's going to bring Home His entire Church, both the living and the dead, giving us all new bodies in the process.

Want to give me your thoughts on all of this, everyone?


Kathy G.

Kathy G.,

During the weee hours of the morning, I had a dream for which I was pleading the case for horses' bridlepaths to be included in the planning of some city. I believe that our Lord was having me dream this dream, just to take my mind off of the worries of this miserable old world; and b/c He knows I love horses, and I love to ride them.

I, you see--have a couple pictures of (one of me w/Prince, my beautiful equine friend) & late former child actress Lori Martin (real name--Dawn Catherine Menser) w/her National Velvet horse, Blaze King. Also across my livingroom, is a picture portrait of Jesus, I constantly glance at. I look at the two horses, wondering what it would be like to own them both, as a distraction of this world's woes.

Anyhoo, to make the long story short, after having that dream, I woke up with a happy and feeling good feeling...a feeling I never felt before--before the dream I had of Jesus making Himself known to me in my Judgment Seat of Christ dream.

I believe that Jesus in His own sweet infinite loving way, let me know that I belong to Him completely...and that I have nothing to fear, for soon I will be seeing Him when He comes for us.

Am I making any sense here, re: my post Jesus had just given me His Blessed Assurance, is what I'm trying to convey.

Maranatha!
Tammy

Kathy G, I am so glad to see you post this verse in particular. It is the answer for those Christians who are concerned about being left out of the rapture because of youtubes and "words" from some that only the holy will go and many Christians left behind. This verse shows that the redemption bought by the Blood of Jesus on the cross INCLUDES and is completed by not only the soul and spirit being saved, but the body changed into an incorruptible one (I Corinthians 15).

The false holiness movement is really a religious spirit that has trapped some in its deception who are then turning and foisting it off on everyone else. To be "HOLY" simply means that we are set apart. It is the same kind of meaning as the good china being "set apart" to be used for special occasions. It just means that God has a special purpose for your life and you are a set apart one for God's service. As far as purity, righteousness, etc., these are imputed to us by Jesus's death and resurrection. We receive that at the time of salvation from the Lord. We are HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, not our own. The Bible says that our righteousness is as filthy rags. Therefore, every born-again child of God, every saved man, woman and child no matter their level of growth in knowledge of God is going home in the rapture. Your study shows that Kathy and I am so glad to see it. Thanks so much!

You said it, Texas Sue, and thanks! The evidence is in the verses I posted. And Tammy, it sure sounds as if God has given you His reassurance regarding this situation, doesn't it?

Kathy, Thanks so much for posting this study, It's right on!

It speaks right to the point. Isn't it awesome, that we can go to scripture,
and it can give us the answers we've been looking for in God's holy written word! Good work Sis!

God Bless,

Valerie

Thanks, Valerie!

My video response:



AMEN! He has paid it ALL.

Praise God!!!

God Bless you!

I felt lead by our Lord to post this video~~~Enjoy!!!



Holy Spirit was not done yet!!!

Kathy, I've heard you say this many times before in the years gone by!

I think you'd love to see this, from the Blue Letter Bible orgination.

This is from the "Today's Promise from the Bible"

"Fair Use for Information & Discussion Purposes"

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Reflection

When we accept Christ as our Savior, His righteousness is placed upon us. It is not our own semblance of righteousness (which is as filthy rags) that clothes us, but Christ's own perfection (which is as robes of white).

My Prayer: Thank you, Lord, for Your love that allows me to be clothed in Your righteousness! May I never take it for granted!

http://promises.blueletterbible.org/

You said it, Valerie, and isn't that the truth!

Kathy, Thanks :

I was having problems with message about MAKING sure you are full of oil.
I don't know about you or Valerie, or Texas Sue......but there as been times of heavy spirit, little joy, just barely hanging on...going through a dry rocky place in our lives. Sometimes these moments last for months, but not forever.

Sometimes I felt neither hot or cold...just making it through 24 hrs without quiting on the Lord.

When someone says about making sure you are full of oil of the Holy Spirit, it sounds like I should be UP HIGH ON THE MOUNTAIN top and sometimes I am.

But I don't know what it means to be filled with oil. The Holy Spirit directs my path...but I am far from being want I want to be. I just keep walking . Thats All I know to do.

Well, that's the good news, Mary: we can never run out of Holy Spirit. Because He seals and indwells us, He's not going to run out. Being filled with the Holy Spirit has to be activated moment by moment, day by day, but being sealed and indwelled by Him does not. He's going to dwell in us until we either die or are Raptured.

Incidentally, I know what you mean by the dry, rocky places. I wish I could feel God's presence all the time, but so often, I don't.

Mary, as the verses that Kathy posted say, at the moment we are forgiven by the Lord and become a new creature - born again - the Holy Spirit takes up residence in our spirit. Jesus promised that He would never leave us or forsake us ever - no timeouts.

As far as feelings, those are based in the soul realm or area of our being which is separate from our spirit. The soul is the mind, will and emotions. So sometimes we just can't trust our feelings, only God's promises.

The best explanation I have ever heard goes something like this. For instance, when a house is built, it is wired for electricity and connected to the power source. It is not obvious that the electricity is there until you plug something in like the TV, or flip a switch and turn on the lights. It is there all the time humming through the wires, but is not obviously there until you call on it. The Holy Spirit is like that - unseen but installed in our lives, in our spirits. He is there all the time humming in our spirit whether we feel like He is or not.

Another example that God showed me once in a quick, snapshot like vision, was a spiritual umbilical cord that runs from our belly to God on His throne. I saw this shining cord connecting from God to me as if we were joined from heaven to earth. Somewhere in the Bible it talks about a silver cord of life and I have wondered if that is what I have seen. A short vision or understanding of something given like that is an example of the Holy Spirit of God at work in your life. He can show up or "light up" at the most surprising times. The letters that John wrote are full of reassurance and proofs of how we can know the spirit of God dwells in us. Here are some of my favorite verses:

I John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

I John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

I John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

This song says it all.

FAIR USE FOR INFORMATION AND DISCUSSION PURPOSES

Another example that God showed me once in a quick, snapshot like vision, was a spiritual umbilical cord that runs from our belly to God on His throne.



THAT IS WHAT I USE TO SAY TO A CLOSE FRIEND OF MINE.

Something connects me to God ...that even if I get angry over an issue about something that I thought "God could have handled it better" AFTER ALL I am his child. Or some other issue.

I still felt a deep connection that would woo me back to confess my anger about God {and who could refuse} I often wondered WHY ME when so few people care about the Lord and I do. What sets US apart from the majority of people. (not counting the ones who live India and othr places)
but here in America, with such a rich spiritual heritage with so few people who care.

I think you answered my ? Sue THANKS!!!!

Mary, I love your example of the connection we have with God. It is an almost tangible thing isn't it.

In re-reading these verses from I John, it answers the question of why when we talk about God to other people, even those who say they are Christian but don't HEAR us, we get that deer in the headlights look or they just ignore us.

They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us.

People who are connected to God hear, those connected to the world speak a different language and have ears that "hear not".

From Romans 8 in the New King James Bible:

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

From Suffering to Glory

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;

21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

Salvation again, is a complete package with the final step being the resurrection, the redemption of our mortal bodies which will become immortal, incorruptible. The blood of Jesus washes away all sins, past, present, future, and redeems us spirit, soul and body. Thanks be to God for His unspeakable gift.

Thought I'd bump this up.

It's no wonder that I get that lovey-dovey feeling in my tummy feeling.

Thank you, Mary for that...although my thanks is rather on the late side. But atleast I'm better late than never, eh!?

Maranatha!
Tammy

Bump for the newcomers!

Bump.

I think I'll bump this back up once again.

It is good to be back!
God Bless all here~members and lurkers alike

Bump back up once again for the newcomers!

"Fair Use for Information & Discussion Purposes"

Thanks for posting this Kathy G. It helped clear up what we were talking about on the other post.

I think the Lord led me to your post, and He helped me to a better understanding of this.

God Bless You In Christ,

Julie F.

Bump.

Bump.

Bump.

This may be the last time I will bump this. If we are Raptured in the next few days, it will be the last time!

OK, last October wasn't the last time, as it turned out, but it looks a if this time is!

I've decided it's time to update this thread. So here it is!

I've decided that now would be a good time to bump this thread back up.

praise God for that Kathy

"Fair Use for Information and Discussion Purposes"

Micah 7:18 NASB
Who is a God like You, who pardons iniquity and passes over the rebellious act of the remnant of His possession?
He does not retain His anger forever, because He delights in unchanging love.
19 He will again have compassion on us; He will tread our iniquities under foot.
Yes You will cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
20 You will give truth to Jacob and unchanging love to Abraham, which You swore to our forefathers from the days of old.

Amen to that, Regina!

Fair Use for Information and Discussion Purposes

Our faithful God will not leave the earth without a witness of Jesus. While the church is still here, we can pray for people and witness as we are able, to the truth about Jesus. After the church is taken to be with the Lord, as long as this site and the multitude of others that believers have made remain on the internet, perhaps people will be able to find a website and read about Jesus online and realize they need Him, and place faith in Him. Even if and when the Christian witness sites are removed, God has a plan for witness about His Son that the world cannot stop.

Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 3:1 (NASB) Finally, brethren, pray for us that the word of the Lord will spread rapidly and be glorified, just as it did also with you; 2 and that we will be rescued from perverse and evil men; for not all have faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, and He will strengthen and protect you from the evil one.

Father in heaven, I ask that the word of the Lord would spread rapidly, that You Father God and Jesus would be glorified just like what happened when the apostles spread the gospel and taught in the beginning of the church. I pray that the truth about Jesus would not be silenced. During the tribulation years, I ask that the witness of the 144,000 and two witnesses and angels would be heard and be available spiritual light to all who are alive in those days. Please prepare hearts, Father God, to be able to embrace truth. I pray for those people who will decide to trust in Jesus during the tribulation years that their faith will remain and they will find comfort and strength for each day having the sure hope of resurrection to eternal life in joy and life with Jesus. I ask for the bible to be available to them somehow and for provision for their needs. I ask in Jesus name, amen

Revelation 7:1 (NASB) After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.”

4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

5 from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, 6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, 7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, 8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

A Multitude from the Tribulation
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 10 and they cry out with a loud voice, saying,

“Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” 11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying,

“Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.”

Revelation 11:1 (NASB) Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. 2 Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. 3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way. 6 These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.

7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. 9 Those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead bodies for three and a half days, and will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

11 But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” Then they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them.

Revelation 14:6-10 (ESV)
The Messages of the Three Angels
6 Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. 7 And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

8 Another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality.”

9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Heavenly Father, I ask please, if it is within Your will, that You would use this site after the rapture to help people understand what happened and understand their need to place faith in Jesus for forgiveness of sin. I ask in Jesus name, amen

I ask You to do that, too, God. In Jesus's name, amen.