Ok, so now I am freaking out! I watched this video on Youtube called: I Saw the Tribulation - Ken Peters. He states that there was no rapture. He mentions that only the dead in Christ rose, then the tribulation happened, and Christians were martyred. Then I see the video below. I am really confused now, and fearful. I have always beleived in the Rapture. Perry Stone teaches it, Jack Van Impe, John Hagee, etc. I searched the scriptures, and found scriptures to support it. My children have had numoerous of dreams about it. I have had prophetic dreams ever since I was a child. So, I asked the Lord for a dream to confirm whether we would be raptured or not, and I haven't received anything. There are so many people that have been posting on Youtube about having dreams about the rapture. Yet there are so many honest, sincere Christian people that ademently do not believe in it. Ken Peters seems to have scripture to back his dream up, and yet he never mentions the rapture. God is not the author of confusion. So then how is it that well meaning Christians, everywhere, are having conflicting dreams and revelations? So, how do we know that we are not being deceived into beliveing a lie; a doctrine of satan? Have I been teaching my children a false doctrine?



"Fair use for information and discussion purposes."

You will notice in the video he speaks of the Old Man who was the Evangelist during the Trib. The Old Man said that he was not prepared for the Coming of the Lord.

Also you will notice he said that none of the prominent Evangelists were on earth.

Just a few things that I noticed.

Hold fast that no man steal your Crown!

Grace and Peace!

That's right. And since there can't a resurrection of the dead in Christ without a Rapture of the living in Christ, have no fear; we'll be caught up right after the dead in Christ have been, and then we'll all be taken to be with the Lord in Heaven.

Ken Peters was not even saved when he had this vision. I put more faith in God's word than in a vision which can be manipulated by dark forces. The rapture is literally the RESURRECTION where we receive an incorruptible body, changed from corruptible or mortal to immortality. This is the fullness of salvation paid for with the life and blood of Jesus Christ.

In I Peter chapter one, Peter talks about this promise:

There have already been "raptures" of the living in the Bible. These include Enoch, Elijah, Jesus and the old testament saints that He brought out of Sheol with Him - Matthew 27:51-53 - so we will also be caught up in the clouds. The Bible also states that we will be spared or kept out of the day of God's wrath. Look up, and do not let your faith in God's keeping and delivering power be put down. Jesus can come and will at any moment now.

Kristi,

Who are we to listen to, this man and his video or scripture.


1 Thessalonians 4 13:17

"13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.

15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words."

The scripture states we will be caught up TOGETHER, WITH THEM (DEAD IN CHRIST) TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR!

To me that is the Rapture, the Resurrection of the dead in Christ First and we whom remain and are alive, with TOGETHER MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR.

Maranatha!

Valerie

Texas Sue,
I agree with what you are saying. However, I wouldn't discredit what he has dreamed simply because he was not saved at the time of the dream. Paul was not saved when he had the vision of Christ on the road to Damascus. My mother was not saved at the time when she had a very vivid dream about 30 years ago, where Christ and Satan was in the dream and Christ told her to choose. As far as I know, scripture backs up what he has dreamed, as well as the things that he has prophesied about have/are coming to pass. It was a shock when I heard him say there was no rapture of the saints. However, it is a good point, that I believe Clay or someone pointed out that mentioned that in the video, he said that prominent preachers where not there, and the old evangelist that he spoke with mentioned that he had not been prepared. I guess I missed that when I watched the video. That makes more sense to me. By hearing this, one would conclude that there in fact was a rapture, hence why the preachers were not there, etc. My concern or confusion was the fact that the rapture part was left out in his dream. That part is where I am puzzled.

Kristi, the rapture/resurrection is supposed to happen in the twinkling of an eye - that is a fraction of a second. It happens so fast that it won't be seen by a bystander. That is perhaps another reason he didn't "see it". In any case, there is scripture after scripture that says we -the church or bride of Christ -are not appointed to wrath. I will go with the God's word on it.

Additionally, Valerie and Calvin also made some very good points in their posts. I hope you have read them.

Our ONLY and FINAL authority is the Word of God. There are dreams and visions to cover just about everything under the sun. We need to stop giving so much credence to dreams, visions, words, etc. as if all of it is from the Lord. Humans are fallible, humans can deceive and easily be deceived. That's why we have the Word. It's easy...if it goes against the Lord's Word, shut it off, ignore it, walk away from it no matter how convincing it sounds. That's how we fall into confusion, and we lose our joy and our peace. Stick to the Word like glue!

Shelby, very good points and I agree completely. The bible says that God's kingdom is righteousness, peace and joy. So if the joy and peace is missing, it is not of God.

Kristi,

If you are talking about the Youtube video of Ken Peters that I posted in the "Dreams and Visions" section, I never took it that Ken said that there was no Rapture. He did say that he never saw anyone changed or zapped out. I took it that the Rapture of the living wasn't a part of his vision. What he did see was the dead in Christ being raised from the dead in great and graphic detail.

As Kathy said, you can't have the Resurrection of the dead in Christ without having the Rapture of "those that are alive and remain" as well. They happen at same time and are inseparable.

Mark,

I have not seen the Ken Peters video that you have posted on RFTH. I am referring to the Ken Peters video that I saw on Youtube. In the video, he said he did not see the rapture of the saints; only the dead in Christ. I can't fathom why such an important part as the living saints being raptured would be left out of this very detailed dream. If the rapture f the dead i Christ and the living in Christ is at the same time and one in the same, then why would it have been left out of the dream? It would be like telling the story of Goldie locks and the three bears, but leaving out the three bears. The video was taped by the Prophecy Club-who Stan Johnson is head of-he does not believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture-which I'm sure is why he was so welcoming to Ken Peters testimony. I am not trying to debate. I am an honest Christian-like all of you-and am simply making sure that what I have been taught and believed for so long is true and not a false doctrine. I have been teaching my children about a pre-trib rapture, and I do not want to deceive them. I have searched the scriptures, and watched people teach on it. It's very convincing. The problem is that the other view is very convincing just the same. I am not debating here. I believe in the pre-trib rapture. I am simply trying to be sure that what I believe is correct and sound doctrine.






"Fair use for information and discussion purposes."

Kristi,

That second video with Stan Johnson is a whopping 2 1/2 hrs. long and I'm trying to watch it now. What is it that he is covering that has you questioning the pre-trib rapture?

As a side note...I used to listen to Stan Johnson and Prophecy Club back in the late 90's. Back then he was pushing that Y2K was going to be really bad and he was selling long term storage food....just by coincidence. Honestly, I don't fault him for that but when you are the head of an organization that specializes in "prophecy" then I question its authenticity after the fact.

Now....having said all that, this thread may be dangerously close to crossing a RFTH no-no line. If the moderator chooses to remove it...then Kristi, you can email me if you choose too. I generally leave my email address on most of my posts.

In the Ken Peters video he begins his discourse about the Elderly Gentleman at 33:34.

33:38 The Elderly Gentleman said "He had not prepared for the times of the Lord." "Immediately Sadness filled this man's countenance."

As the others have pointed out, the Scriptures are very clear that we are caught up together with the Resurrected Saints and will be forever with the Lord.

This vision started with the Resurrection & Rapture. Regardless of what the Lord chose to show Ken that was not the point of the vision. This vision was to show what would come to pass during the Tribulation and that if you found yourself in that time that you would have to die as a martyr for the Lord.

Kristi, regardless of what any man says you need to take everything to the Lord. He, through his Holy Spirit will bear witness to the Truth. Like you stated earlier he is not the Author of confusion. Lean on Him and Trust in his Guidance. He will not steer you wrong.

Grace and Peace

Mark,

As far as pushing the envelope. I hope that Valerie, Kathy, Texas Sue and the other moderators know that I would never intentionally try to start a debate on RFTH. I love this site, and respect everyone's beliefs and opinions. As I stated earlier in my post, am a Pre-Tribber; I am just trying to get a better understanding of what I have been taught and what I have believed for so many years. I want to be able to defend what I believe with solid scriptures to back it up. And when I watch a video like the Ken Peters one, it gets me frazzled and makes me question. I haven't watch the second video in it's entirety. It's the first video by Ken Peters that has me questioning the pre-trib rapture theory. But not just his video, but others as well. I just can't fathom in my little mind, how sincere people who worship the same Christ, can have such conflicting beliefs. How is it, that one set of saints can be in deep prayer, have dreams, visions and words from the Lord that all say they are going to stay for the Tribulation. Then the other set who have words from the Lord, visions, dreams, and prophecies that say they will be taken up in the rapture. I don't want to sound ignorant. I know good and well that there are many differences and denominations. My question is the whole dream, word of the Lord, prophecy that is contradictory. I saw a video a week or two ago where a couple were told in prayer that they were one of those chosen to stay behind. I was stunned. (I'll post the video below for you to see.)



"Fair use for information and discussion purposes."

Kristi,

"No debating about the Rapture" is listed on the top of the forum. Also this Rapture forum has already been predetermined to be a PRE-TRIB Rapture forum.
I've let this discussion go this far...and I think we should be careful not to turn this into a heated debate.

Kristi, believe what the scripture states not what people are saying!!! His word is truth.

Ask God's Holy Spirit to give you the answer and interpretation from God's Word instead! For He is the Spirit of Truth! People error, God doesn't make mistakes.


Watch this video for encouragement:

"Fair Use for Information & Discussion Purposes"

Valerie,
Please read my post in it's entirety as well as my reply to Mark W. I AM NOT DEBATING ANYTHING HERE. I am well aware of the rules for this forum. But do you think it's fair, if I believe the same thing you believe, however, I am trying to get a better understanding of it so I can confidently defend my beliefs, that you not allow anyone that comes to this site post a question about it?

Kristi,

I challenge you to do a search for Perry Stone's, "Ancient Jewish Wedding Ceremony."

That teaching "by itself" is an outstanding image of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

Mark,
LOL! I love Perry Stone! As a matter of fact, that's the teaching that led me to believe in the pre-trib rapture! I made a mistake and watched the Ken Peters video and it threw me a curve ball.

Kristi,

I didn't say you are debating, I said, that to be careful that it doesn't lead to a heated debate.

To get a better understanding will only come from the Lord. There have been excellent replies to your questions.

Have you read my post, that the dead and living in Christ, will be Raptured TOGETHER...take a look at the exact scripture doesn't this tell you that this is the Rapture?

It's not a matter of whether the Rapture will happen or not because it will! It's a matter of when.

Don't forget many confuse, the Rapture and the Second Coming of the Lord, which are two different events.

There will always be people for the Rapture and against it, that's where we use the scripture for reference and our God given discernment.

Hope this answers some of your questions!

Blessings!

Valerie

Read the Sticky:

Defending the Pre Tribulation Rapture

http://pub37.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3138553015&frmid=389&msgid=1129922&cmd=show

You'll find Perry Stone's videos' about the Pre tribulation Rapture at the above url, and much more information that should answer most if not all of your questions.

I watched that Ken Peters video before and I assumed that he was simply shown the side of it for an unbeliever. Maybe I am wrong, but that is what I thought!
Anyway, I just found this video that may answer some questions. ALso if you Google Rapture VS 2nd Coming, you will find all sorts of things.


*** "Fair use for information and discussion purposes" ***‏