I could look this up myself but I am looking after my small children. I do not know the book of Revelations at all well.


I am asking because of a video I saw concerning the groaning of the earth being related to the spilt blood of the Saints and the 5th seal. Just want to know quickly when this opening of the 5th seal takes place and whether this prophecy could be of some value in understanding these strange sounds.

thanks
shannon

Since the first seal will not be opened till after the Rapture, the 5th seal will be opened some time later in the Tribulation.

No, it's not, Brandon. None of the seals can be opened until the Church is in Heaven. It's not the Church that will suffer in the 5th-seal judgment; it's the Tribulation believers. Those who come to faith in Christ following the Rapture will be forced to seal their testimonies with their blood; only a minority of them will survive to enter the Millenial Kingdom as mortals.

Shannon,

I agree with Kathy, the 5th Seal is not as yet opened.

It has to do with the Tribulation Saints!

Since Christ came to Earth and died on the cross;
Rose again on the 3rd day, many throughout the centuries have been martyred for their faith in Christ. But the Scripture is speaking of the Tribulation Saints, whom refused to take the mark or worship the beast. Those whom have been martyred, are told to wait for whom...for the tribulation saints whom have yet to be slain then the 5th seal will be opened.

1And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. 2And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

3And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. 4And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.


5And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. 6And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.


7And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


This is still in the future!

Maranatha!

Valerie

Shannon,

I believe that it will all happen in chronological
which means that events will happen accordingly!

1. Arranged in order of time of occurrence.
2. Relating to or in accordance with chronology.

Therefore the Rapture will take place before the opening of the Seals.

Here is a picture of what will occur beforehand:

In Revelation 4:1, which John's going to heaven is seen by pre-tribbers as the rapture of the church.

Rev 4:1-2

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. (KJV)

I believe that John's hearing a trumpet and being asked to come up hither to the throne are symbolic of the rapture of the church prior to the great tribulation.

1 Th 4:16-17

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (KJV)


1 Cor 15:52

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (KJV)


Blessings!

Valerie

Thanks Valerie


I think this sounds right. I was a little confused by Dr. O and his idea that the 4th seal has already been opened. I think this is what he believes?

I still do not know what to think of Dr. O. I do feel he is a man of God but is he correct about everything? Only time will tell.

Revelations is very confusing in my opinion. I usually leave such questions alone but I have been so interested in what these groanings are. I'm not completely convinced by the videos but I can't say they are fake either... I'm waiting to learn more.


Shannon

Actually, Shannon, no, he's not correct about everything. I've seen that myself. There are certain things he's very much mistaken about, and one of them is his belief that the seals are already being opened. Another is his belief in a partial Rapture.

Yes I know what you me about Dr.O., this is what He believes, however Pre Tribbers don't see it that way instead, we follow the order that it is written in the Bible. I still think he is a great man of God, and a prophet, but as a man he is still fallible like the rest of us. Therefore, it doesn't make a difference to me he believes it the way he does, and I'm sure it doesn't matter to him, that I believe in the Pre Tribulation Rapture, therefore, I believe that it is in chronological according to scripture.

I hope this clears things up!

Blessings!

Valerie

Hello


I know it might seem weird that I am ignorant concerning these things but you must take into account that I only started going to church last year and I have not finished the Bible yet. The last time I went to church I was a young kid and only was taught very simple Bible stories. I read only a little each evening and I often end up reading specific chapter over and over. I usually ask God what He wants me to read. I really know very little abouyt revelations at this point.

That is why I appreciate any help I get here. I also have to be so careful because there are so many different opinions ... I do feel God has given me wisdom to ask the right ppl. So far so good.

shannon

Brandon T,

You're mistaken, we are only seeing the pre cursors to the Tribulation & the Great Trib., which will happen in the second part of the Tribulation.

If you re-read what I wrote about chronological order of events to come, you haven't seen anything yet. The Tribulation will be so horrendous, horrific, unbelievable, that nothing like this will ever be repeated again.

Brandon & all, I think it's time to close on this subject and this thread.

If you believe in the Pre Tribulation Rapture, then this is the only scenario that fits. Otherwise, you either believe in the Mid Trib, Post Trib...and that's not what this forum is about.

"No debating about the Rapture or denominational issues." is listed at the top of the page, therefore, I will close this thread down. Discussions are over, and debating will cease to begin.

Maranatha,

Valerie