No, I'm not quoting someone else's article this time--I'm writing my own post. This is a legitimate question. Who are the 10 virgins--the Church? The Tribulation saints? Or who? I've noticed that so many watchers insist that the Church is a collection of virgins who must keep their lamps lit or else miss out on the Rapture. But are we, truly?

Before I attempt to answer that question, first, let's look at the parable itself. Who was the groom marrying? Was he marrying 10 women who had to keep themselves ready or they would miss out on their own wedding? (Ten women sounds more like a harem to me, not a union between one man and one woman--not very appealing to me! =)) Was he telling them, "If you're not ready to go to the banquet with me when I get there, then tough patouties, you're out of luck; our engagement is broken"? That doesn't sound like any wedding I've ever heard of, least of all the Jewish wedding customs in Jesus' day. Don't forget that a betrothal was as binding as a marriage is now; only through divorce could it be broken. So even if the groom was annoyed enough with his bride, for her lack of preparation, to want to call it off, he had to go through the legal channels to do so, and divorce her. He couldn't just say, "Since you weren't ready in time, I don't know you, so I'm not letting you in. I will not marry you."

Let's look at the study notes in the NIV Study Bible that pertain to this subject. First I will post the passage in its entirety, and then I will include among the verses, in parantheses, the notes at the bottom of that page in my study Bible.

1"At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. (25:1 ten virgins. The bridesmaids, who were responsible for preparing the bride to meet the bridegroom.) 2Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. (25:3 oil. Olive oil.) 4The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6"At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!'

7"Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. (25:7 trimmed. The charred ends of the rags were cut off and oil was added.) 8The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.'

9" 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.' (25:9 there many not be enough. Torches required large amounts of oil in order to keep burning, and the oil had to be replenished about every 15 minutes.)

10"But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

11"Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!'

12"But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'

13"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour. (25:13 keep watch. The main point of the parable. Of the paurosia, the coming of Christ.)

OK, let's look at a few points in this passage and the notes I included.

First, the study notes plainly state that the 10 virgins were bridesmaids. Their job was to attend the bride, help her to get ready for her wedding. (BTW, where was the bride? Jesus didn't even mention her!) Now, the big question. Who are we? Are we a collection of bridesmaids? Or are we the Bride? We're the Bride of Christ, are we not? And if we are, is our Groom going to shut us out of our own wedding? Of course not! He would have to divorce us to do that; in other words, He would have to revoke our salvation. And the study notes also plainly state that the parousia is the coming of Christ. Not the coming of Jesus in the air for His Church, but His Second Coming--His return to this earth, this time to rule it. There is no hint of the Rapture in this passage, only of the Glorious Appearing.

So if the 10 virgins are not the Church, then they have to be the Tribulation saints. And that fits much better with the eternal security that we enjoy (and the lack of such security which they will have to endure) than the notion that we must maintain our standing in Jesus in order to qualify to escape His wrath in the Tribulation. I mean, consider this. During this dispensation, the Church Age,we are sealed and indwelled by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation. He is our deposit, our down payment, so to speak. It is the Church alone that enjoys eternal security. The Old Testament saints were not so fortunate. The Holy Spirit came upon them when He needed them for a particular ministry, but they had to maintain their standing through their works. The Tribulation saints will have to do the same thing, and it appears that not all of them will be successful in doing so, sad to say. The ones who fail to maintain their standing, their readiness, up to the moment that Jesus returns will be the ones who will hear those dreaded words, "I tell you the trust, I don't know you." They will go to Hell.

Now, you may say that those who are left behind won't necessarily lose their salvation. I honestly don't know how you can think that, when every person who is left behind will be lost and the Restrainer will be removed. I mean, think about this. Not only does the Holy Spirit seal and indwell us, guaranteeing our salvation and thus its completion in the Rapture, He also restrains evil. Acting through the Church, He is the Restrainer. As long as even part of the Church is still here, so is the Restrainer. The Tribulation cannot begin until the Restrainer is gone, and He won't leave without us. That means, to leave even one born-again Christian behind, God would have to remove His Holy Spirit from that Christian. In other words, He would have to cancel that Christian's salvation. It would be just as if he had never been saved to begin with. Every former Christian in that deplorable state would be lost and subject to God's wrath, both in the Tribulation and in the world to come. And once that happened, would God be willing to save us a second time? I don't know, and I have no desire to find out! Thank the Lord I don't have to.

Nope--God is taking His entire Church to Heaven when that trumpet blows. The Rapture is not a reward for good works, but the completion of our salvation, because it is at that completion that we will be freed of our sin natures and be granted our glorified resurrection bodies. For us, sin and death will have been conquered once and for all. Our rewards will come at the Bema. Some will lose rewards, sad to say, but they will not be forced, as a form of Protestant purgatory, to endure seven years of God's wrath, while facing the very real possibility of eternity in the Lake of Fire. As His Body, we are not appointed to wrath--in this world or the next--but to salvation, every one of us.


Kathy G.

Great post, Kathy!

Thanks, WaitingExpectantly!

In the final paragraph of my OP, I spoke of the Rapture as being the completion of our salvation. Since it is the completion of our salvaton, it's part of the salvation package, not a reward. To elaborate further on that aspect on the Rapture, I am going to post a reply to a thread that an administrator of another end-times forum posted on this very subject, with her permission. (I'm also posting a link to that thread, at the bottom.)
______________________________________________________

Then your hope isn't biblical, because the Bible says our blessed hope is the completion of our salvation, not it's beginning. We've already experienced what you're talking about. That is a "Fact", not a "hope". Our "hope" is for when we receive our new bodies and our salvation is made complete, which happens at the rapture.

Titus 2:12-14 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

The rapture is the culmination of our spiritual journey. It's the completion of our salvation as the disciples called it. That's why it's called "our blessed hope!"

When we accept the gift of salvation, we are saved, 100%. This is when we are given the new nature, which is also referred to as a new spirit. This is our eternal incorruptible spirit which the Lord gives us; a spirit that cannot die, cannot be damaged or corrupted by sin in any way.

However, because we already have another spirit/nature, we are constantly being torn between the two of them. The old spirit doesn’t just “disappear” when we receive our new ones. It will remain with us until we die or are raptured. At that time, because it is corruptible, it will die and that will leave us with only one nature/spirit. The spirit we will be left with is the incorruptible spirit, the one that can never die.

So now here we are, we’re saved and we have that incorruptible spirit to prove it. It will live forever, which means that we too will now live forever. It is pure so it will live with God which means that we too will live with God, but something else still has to happen first before we can live there physically. We must get rid of that corruptible spirit and we must get our incorruptible bodies.

This is the “salvation” we are eagerly waiting for. It’s not just that we will immortal bodies, fly through the air and escape the tribulation, although that’s usually what we focus on. We cannot have those perfect bodies until the old spirit is gone. So what we are waiting for as well is the final death of our old spirit so it will no longer plague us.

As we’ve said, the death of our old spirit happens either at our physical death, or if we are still alive at the time when the Father sends Jesus to get us in the rapture, then it will happen at that time. In an instant, the twinkling of an eye, our old spirit will die, so we will only have the one perfect one left, and our old physical bodies will be remade to match our new spirit. We will finally be “whole” and our salvation will be complete. We will be ready for heaven!

This then is the time line if you will of salvation as seen if the person dies before the rapture:

*the instant we are saved we receive a new spirit; we become a new creation

*we then spend whatever time we have left in this lifetime studying to show ourselves approved and doing our best to please the Lord, denying ourselves and making our lives our sacrifice to Him; preparing ourselves for our eternal lives.

*We die leaving this corruptible body behind and when we die, our old nature also dies so it will no longer plague us. We are in heaven immediately on death in our spiritual bodies enjoying heaven and the Lord. We are free of sin forever!

*The rapture happens and in an instant we receive our incorruptible physical bodies which match the incorruptible spirit we received so long ago when we were first saved, and our salvation is now complete and we live with the Lord forever in our new bodies.

Obviously if the rapture happens before we die, then at the instant of the rapture we receive our new bodies as it says in number 4 and our old spirit dies as it says in number 3. Either way, whether we die first or are taken in the rapture, we along with all other believers will receive our physical incorruptible bodies at that point in time.

This is why the rapture is our blessed hope. When we die we do get rid of our old nature, but we do not yet have our incorruptible bodies. It is at the rapture that our salvation becomes totally complete; totally finished, because at that moment we are both rid of our old natures and receive our new bodies and we will be like Him! That is our blessed hope, that we will finally truly be like Him! Not divine as some heresies would have us think, but complete, immortal, sin free, and living with Him forever!

Romans 8:23-24 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?

Galatians 5:5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Philippians 1:6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.


Where is Your Blessed Hope? (Fresh Hope)

Listen, Trish. Nothing that God, in His grace, does for us is a license to sin. That's not what He saves us for, and anyone who's thinking, "Goody! I'm saved by grace, so I can sin up a storm!" is not really a child of God to begin with. A true child of God receives a new nature that wants to follow Christ. That new nature never stops wanting to do so. But we still have that old sin nature, too, which we will not be free of until we're free of our mortal bodies. Once God completes our salvation by giving us our new glorified bodies, the sin nature will be gone forever; only the new nature will remain. Till then, we have to wage war within ourselves constantly, and we still sin, sad to say.

And you're right--going to church does not make us a Christian. The only way to do that is to accept Jesus into our hearts. And it's true--He does know who are His.

Bump.

Bump.

Thanks, Nicole. I'm in no position to say for sure whether your friend is saved or not, since I don't know her. All I do know is what you've said about her. But I do know that a true Christian doesn't make as good a sinner as someone who's not a Christian, and if your friend is a child of God who's trying to live like the world, sooner or later, God's going to get her attention one way or the other (this side of the Rapture, not afterward) and it's not going to be pleasant. And if she's thinking that she's saved because she goes to church or because her parents are Christians (I don't know if they are or not), or whatever, but she's never accepted Christ into her heart, then she's in for a rude awakening when the trumpet blows.

Newsflash: we're not worthy. None of us are worthy to escape God's wrath, not in this life or the next. Not if we're counting on our righteousness to make us worthy, because our righteousness will never be good enough to qualify us for Heaven. It's only through the blood of Jesus that we are made worthy. So it's not because of what we've done that we will be caught up when the time comes. It's because of what Jesus has done--in us and for us.

Nicole,

"I don't want to debate who is or isn't going in the rapture because it is controversial."

I absolutely feel the way you do too Nicole, I decided NOT TO DEBATE IT...OR THIS POST ON "WHO ARE THE 10 VIRGINS!

The timing is very short, now, and although I don't agree with Kathy's posted point of view, except for scriptures...I will refrain from discussing this subject. It is way too controverscial, and has caused some bad feels amongst members in the past from other forums on the internet. I've seen too many flair ups on two main websites whom most of us visit daily over this subject, along with the once saved always saved controversy as well.

If we agree or disagree on these subjects will not make any difference on whether or not we'll be Raptured. We can discuss, debate, insist, edge on, demand, until we are blue in the face, and it may not make any difference; whether we are right about our views or not. God is the only ONE whom has the LAST say on who is right or wrong not any one of us, including myself! Somethings a better left alone!


The time is too short for this now! It's time to stop and reflect what is really important. It's important to make sure, that we are displaying God's love, patience, kindness, in all we say and do, so that others see the reflection of Christ in us, and want what we have; God's Holy Spirit abiding within us,whom Christ sent!

Jesus is coming, and I'd rather have Jesus than be right about any discussion...!

We have our own views on certain things, and as long they don't deter us from following Jesus, they can be overlooked!

As far as calling oneself saved, and continue crusing bars...this person is fooling herself, she truly was never saved to begin with. She is not a new creation,
her old nature, is still there, and she's trying to
convince herself otherwise!!!


Blessings in Christ!

Val

Regarding that last point, I suspect you're right, Valerie.

Seeing as there are so many new members of this forum, I felt that this would be a good time to bump this thread back up.

Bump.

Kathy, this was such an excellent post. I loved the way you analyzed the entire parable point by point. Like you, I believe that ALL believers are going up in the rapture, because the Bible says that "we are not appointed unto wrath". (1 Thessalonians 5:9)

I have always wondered what the parable of the 10 virgins meant, but never found an explanation that bore witness to my spirit like this one did. At first glance, it does seem like the ones who are "worthy" are going in the rapture, and the ones who are not are left behind. That is the most popular explanation of the parable. But if that interpretation was true, what about John's admonishment about abiding in Christ so we would "not be ashamed before Him at his coming?" (1 John 2:28) If only the worthy ones who were living holy lives were the only ones going up in the rapture, why would some be ashamed? So that tells me that all Christians are going in the rapture, but the ones who are missing the mark and not living as they should will lose out on their rewards, but still are saved yet so as through fire. (1 Corinthians 3:15)

Another good point was what you said about Jesus not marrying 10 women (like a harum) makes so much sence, meaning that the 10 virgins could not possibly be the bride.

Really good job, Kathy, thank you for this post!!

You're welcome, Lisaleenie! And don't forget, Paul told the Corinthian church that we all will be changed. If there was ever a church that didn't qualify for the Rapture on the basis of personal worthiness, it was the Corinthian church, because it was the most carnal of the lot in Paul's day. Yet, he told them that we all will be changed, including them. He also said that we all have to appear before the judgment seat of Christ. We couldn't all appear before Him in the judgment if some of us were left behind, could we?

Kathy, I didn't think of that particular scripture at the time when I posted my reply to you, but you're absolutely right, it does say that that we will all be changed! Another good scripture showing that all Christians will be included in the rapture.

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52

Bump.

Bump.

thank you Kathy!!!

You're welcome!

Could not agree more Kathy. Thanks

Bumping for the newcomers.

Bump.

I'm thinking that this is a good time to bump this back up again!

Time to bump this back up, I do believe!

Thank you Kathy for the excellent post about the virgins. If I may, to add that the Holy Spirit would not have done a very good job of sealing the church if He leaked out so much that Jesus rejected us when He returns in the sky for us.
No. The Holy Spirit sealing the church is a well done work of God; the fruit of the Spirit in us is just that- the Spirit's fruit production, not ours. It is the Holy Spirit who teaches us and brings to our remembrance God's words.
John 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

The Holy Spirit of God seals us very well. He is the earnest (assurance, down payment) of our heavenly inheritance.
We cannot purchase the Holy Spirit in any amount. The Holy Spirit is a gift from God, sent by Jesus to us after His asencion, given to us when we asked Jesus to be our Savior and come into our heart.
The five unwise virgins went to purchase oil, but the Holy Spirit of God is a gift beyond price.
They were missing fuel to light their way. Perhaps they needed more teaching or a bible, where the 5 wise had the word to light their way.

God bless you Kathy
R

Truer words were never spoken, Regina.

Kathy, you did a good job..

In my younger years I use to believe that this was the body of Christ, but I was wrong.. These virgins paint a picture of those left behind alive after the last 3.5 years of the "Wrath" part of the seven. All those left behind will be weeded out by Christ as he sets up the 1000 year reign on earth. Those wise go into the kingdom, those foolish go out..

Just like the other parables that Jesus painted with the wheat and tares, the sheep and goats, etc., all pointing to the separation after the wrath period is over, and Jesus starts the kingdom age period..

Jesus is speaking to the Judeans here in every case and NOT to the Age of Grace people..

I'll repost my "Ask the Pastor" post.. I hope this will help some to understand how to read and study the Bible..


God bless

RJB

Time to bring this thread back to the top!

Kathy, thank you for the bump to the top again!
Another thought about the 5 wise and 5 foolish virgins before the bridegroom comes: cannot remember where I heard this or I'd give credit, but its a thought about the transaction.
In the tribulation before Jesus comes, the mark of the beast is required and no one can buy or sell without it.
In those days, people who decide for following Jesus and reject the mark, will need to rely on prayer and seeking God. As God took care of the children of Israel in the desert after they left Egypt, as Christ fed the thousands, multiplying fish and bread, those who do survive will need to be asking for God's provision and direction what to do.
The virgins in the story who go to purchase oil would need to be doing so by accepting the mark? If they took the mark, they permanently have lost the opportunity to be saved. It would be better to be out of physical oil (fuel) when Christ returns the second time to earth than to take the mark. Better to lose ones life than to take the mark.
At least if a believer died faithful to God, they would be saved eternally. Prayer, reading the bible to learn how to follow the Lord, to learn what to expect before Jesus returns- in the prophets, gospels, letters of new testament, the revelation of Jesus, will be really important for those not in the church when Jesus comes at 1Thes 4:13-18, John 14:1-3.

They sure will be! I agree.

Bump again in time for the Rapture!

I'm bumping this thread back up.

"Fair Use for Information and Discussion Purposes"

yes, the bride does not lose her promised marriage to the groom over a lamp. no way. nope. not gonna happen. what sin of the bride of Christ does Jesus not forgive? that would be claiming that His body and blood was not effective enough to save us. Perish the thought, its just Wrong.

the bride of Christ is secure in her relationship with Jesus, guaranteed by Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They all three are in agreement and keep their word.

John 10:27-30, 2Cor 1:21-22, Eph 1:13-14

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+10%3A27-30%2C+2Cor+1%3A21-22%2C+Eph+1%3A13-14&version=ESV

Kathy, you said it correctly. This is just for anyone who wants to see a longer teaching

Pastors' Point of View Episode 73. Parable of the 10 Virgins Explained. Matt. 25: 1-13

Thanks, Regina! We most definitely are secure. I don't believe that that parable pertains to the Body/Bride of Christ, but to the Tribulation believers.