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RSL Talk of comparing wars

Having just read Bob Cavill’s new article called “Technicolour Death” (in the “Once We Were Soldiers” section) it seems that many of us have experienced people in RSLs who made derogatory remarks like “Vietnam wasn’t a real war” or “Vietnam vets were a lot of powder puffs”.
One thing is almost certain. People who say things like that probably never saw a shot fired in anger.
I believe that most combat soldiers from the Arms (like infantry, engineers, armour etc) would not speak this way, because they know a bullet or a piece of shrapnel or a land mine do not discriminate with their victims. They kill or maim in exactly the same way, however large or small the conflict may be and whatever the theatre of war, be it World War I, Vietnam or Iraq.
A similar thing was said to me in 1970. I left the RSL and I have never joined again.
Has anyone else had these experiences and do you know if the discourteous veteran was a combat soldier or a pogo?

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

I to was told in 1967 on return from nam that it was only a conflict, although i did join the RSL in 68, i was told not to bother attending sub branch, needless to say i left and had nothing to do with the RSL until this year , again i joined but was not invited to join sub branch, The RSL LIKE THE Government does not support Vietnam Vets (MY PERSONAL OPINION) THEREFORE I FEEL NO ALLEGIANCE OR NEED TO SUPPORT SAME. Maybe one day we all will be made feel a part of the returned service associations like the rsl...

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

It was November '66 and I had been discharged from 2 Camp Hospital, Ingleburn and sent on convelesant leave. I had lost a lot of weight and my civvies no longer fitted me. I was 'kitted out' in a polyester uniform from the Q Store. The Pay Clerk had mucked up my pay so my Father advanced me a small sum on the proviso that I would shout him a beer at the local RSL Club. I stood in reception in uniform, when the door man asked me my age ... I was 19. I had served my country in a theatre of war but I was not old enough to drink in a returned servicemens' club. I was asked to leave and as I was about to go I noticed a mate walking through the foyer with a drink in his hand, he happened to be the club secretary's son ... he was also 19, and a civvie.

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

1967 After the Battalion returned within a few weeks the first intake of national sevicemen having left to follow other careers, the platoons now at about half strength ,those left ,mainly Regs, were used for ceremonial duties, mounting guards at Vic Barracks, the Cenotaph, Funerals etc. 2 mates and myself from Pioneers returning from Vic Barracks in a private car, stopped for a quick couple in a western Sydney R.S,L club on attempting to sign in we were politely told that the greens and boots, black belt etc we were wearing was not within the allowable dress code, we explained the situation having been on duty Ceremonial mount at Victoria Barracks "were we not wearing the Queens uniform!? our boots were spit polished for gods sake! and besides we had not long returned from the funny country, Sorry the greens are considered working clothes and we had to leave! there was a "fracas in the foyer" and we were ejected, absolutely furious and but for the risk of Army repercussions (remember we were not supposed to stop anywhere in uniform at the time) the situation would have become much worse "I swore I would never join the R,S,L and I have not done so to this day.
Bob C

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

G'day... Dave, John, Ted & Bob

I feel like I'm in good company.
Similar experience in 1970. Decided, never would I venture another RSL. Probably non-combatamts as you say.

I did join an RSL in 2002..... but never went to meetings after the first one... I felt like a duck out of water. Membership not renewed & won't ever be.

They had their second & last chance.

PLeased I'm not on my own. Just maybe, us Vietnam Vets are are a majority in our lack of allegiance to the RSL.

Just my two bobs worth.

Bill O'Mara

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

To be fair and to put some balance into this forum discussion, we would also like to hear from those Vietnam vets who have had GOOD experiences with their RSL clubs, where the Vietnam returned servicemen and women are TREATED WITH RESPECT. By having your responses as well, we might be able to get a more accurate picture of how the RSL has treated us across Australia.

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

Sorry Dave, no good experience from me.

I played soccer for the local team which had it's base in the local "RSL and Citizens club". When the other members of the team realised I was a Vietnam vet they convinced me to join the RSL.

As part of the joining rigmarole I had to have an interview.

It was more like an interrogation. I sat in the middle of the room and was confronted by a semi circle of RSL commitee men. The questions they asked were very personal and confronting. It was obvious they did not want a person from "not a real war" spoiling their party.

I got half way through the interview and told them to "shove it". (I was an angry man in those days).

Never went back and never will

Alan Miles.

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

G'day,

Same old sad sorry story for me too I'm afraid with bad experiences at both Croydon Park and Epping RSL's in 1967 and 1974. Yet, no worse experience I suppose could be envisaged than that for the Jackson family in the village of Greta, NSW. When the body of Robert Jackson of 8RAR was brought back home, the Board of the local RSL refused permission for him to be buried in their war graves section of the local cemetery (see 'The Australian' 3rd October 1992).

The old RSL building today is closed, dilapidated and abandoned, the old 'dinosaurs' are long dead and the war memorial monument in the park opposite the old club in the middle of town still has no mention of Vietnam on it.

On a lighter note, I'm reminded of those immortal words from Groucho Marx:
"PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T CARE TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME!"

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

It seems our wives experienced the same disgraceful attitude from some RSL branches as did the returning Vietnam veterans themselves. In this website’s forum the widow of 2Lt Brian Walker, who was killed in action in March 1969, reports a distressing rejection of her and other wives of Vietnam veterans by the War Widows Guild at Coogee RSL. She says:
“As soon as I entered the room and introduced myself and explained my circumstances I was told in no uncertain terms that my husband being killed in SVN did not qualify me for membership or help, support etc., from them. That was not a WAR and I was not welcome at their meetings.”

What a disgrace!

Readers of this forum will note my earlier request for balance in this discussion but not one person has responded with positive stories about Vietnam veterans in the RSL. I do note however that some Vietnam veterans are RSL members today and hold executive positions, so it is hoped they remember the poor reception received back in the 1960s and 1970s and ensure a better RSL attitude towards our service personnel who served in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, East Timor, Somalia, etc.

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

Hi All,
I was a member of 5RAR on the 1st tour. I like you all had a hell of a time from the RSL when I returned from Vietnam. My wife was also refused to be allowed to enter Liverpool RSL while I was in Vietnan.
In 1982 I joined the RSL but only lasted one meeting as I was told by the WW2 diggers and the 3 month Nashos that I didn't serve in a War and I should stay at home. I did this until a few years ago (2001)after I found out that I suffered from PTSD and I found out that there was a large number of Veterans who were the same as me.
I am now the Hon/Secretary of a NSW RSL Sub-Branch. The only reason that I took on this position was to help Vietnam Veterans and Peacekeepers and the troops from Iraq etc. I do not want these Veterans to go through the trauma and rejection that I received from the RSL. I believe the culture in the RSL is changing and as soon as Bill Crews gets out of the Federal Body things will improve.

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Hi All,
I am currently the President of our sub branch in Jandowae (22) members.Lack of interest by current members will see the sub branch close on 31 Dec 2006, as no one wants a job on the top table.OK so be it, but the most galling part of the whole procedure is that State HQ in Brisbane will NOT return my calls for assistance to shut down the sub branch.Dave Wilkins knows me, So Im going to do it my way, and stuff State HQ.
Dont ask me why I joined the RSL again,because I dont really know,perhaps a little pressure to be in the team again.

After my discharge in 1976 I applied in person at the Tweed Heads RSL to join the sub branch and was given the appropriate form and told to fill it out.I did and was told to get someone at the bar to second it.When I asked who were the sub branch members as opposed to associates, I was told "It doesn't matter a stuff, just get it signed".I tore it up in front of said person and suggested seeing it was in four pieces he might find a better use for it.
Another RSL in Tasmania had a distinct wall between real soldiers and the rest of us, so you may well ask, why I go back for more.Perhaps I need Dave Wilkins or Pirate Harrod to give me a good whack round the ears, but I think Ive got the message this time.

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

Hi Kiwi,

From your message it seems as though all State RSL HQs are the same. They want your money from subs and when you are going well they want to know you but when you are going bad its a different story. I am sorry that you have to close your branch but do it YOUR WAY, after all it is an honary non paid position.
As I said before I am in it to help Veterans in their attempt to get pensions and better living conditions.
Jack

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

Hi Jack,
That was my main motivation as well, as my wife and I are both pensions and welfare officers,but I guess the time has come.

Regards Kiwi

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

Kiwi,
I sure do know you well, mate, and it is a shame the RSL is loosing good blokes like yourself, particularly as you and your wife are both pension and welfare officers. It's their loss mate. All the best to an old platoon sgt of C Coy.


Jack,
I don't think I know you, but well done on your position in the RSL Sub-Branch. Hopefully people with your military background and bad RSL experiences might help sort out the current regime. They certainly need a reef in the backside.

Cheers

Dave

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

Have been asked by the Qld Branch to place on record that the non-response to Kiwi's calls was because of the old regime.
Chris McHugh, Chief Executive Officer, RSL (Qld Branch) has placed on record the below.

"I spoke to Russell Hill today, was only requested to call him this morning (5 hr turnaround, can't complain), he explained his frustration was to do with the previous administration, they had never replied to his concerns or calls.

Problem he faces relates to the team getting older, only three Vietnam vets one Korean and the rest WW2, so major problems. They are having the Special AGM tomorrow and expect to shut early in the New Year; we will transfer them to either the unattached list or Dalby, whatever they desire. We discussed the disposal of assets and the need to ensure their memory remains.

Russell was happy with the conversation; Ken Benson will call him Wednesday after their meeting tomorrow.


Mr Chris McHugh
Chief Executive Officer

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

Well done Chris. You are making a difference already.

Dave

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

Hi All,
A very interesting discussion,indeed.Hi Ted, as you reported above that is exactly what happened in regards to State RSL. I should have stated that my problems did occur with the previous regime, and that the current state members were most helpful.To those interested, the meeting that I called, resulted in two most unexpected members putting their hands up, so the Sub Branch will continue to function for at least another 12 months.
As to myself, well that is another matter. When my membership runs out in December, I will not be a member of the RSL, as Im still far from happy with the way the national HQ appears to be in bed with the Govt and DVA, but I do thank the current state members for their help last week and wish them well in their current term in office. They have a hell of a big job in front of them to repair the damage.

Regards Kiwi

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

Hi Kiwi,

Looks like you did good in getting the sub-branch to remain. Pity you are giving the RSL away, they really need people like you, but I can understand you reasons for giving the RSL away. Maybe one day the boffins in HQ will wake up to themselves. The main trouble is (especially in NSW) is that a lot of the people that work in the HQs have never been oversear or seen was like action. A lot have never been in the services.

For those who don't know me I was in the 5 RAR Band and a streacher bearer/medic in Vietnam.

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

To all in this forum, Im not a serviceman, nor ever was, so apologies for crashing. I do feel i should say, as a younger aussie speaking at least on behalf of the many I know, that your sacrifices were as valuable to us, and our nation as those of any previous war, in some ways more. you did what our govt asked of you, and you got no recognition for it, and in fact copped the flack, and with classic aussie grin-and-bear-it style here you all are.

our government is, and perhaps was at fault in the whole affair. That is its tragedy.

You did your duty more than well, and the country failed to recognise it. That, I fear, is ours.

Best Regards,
D

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

D, thankyou for your thoughts; you are most welcome to our website.
As you say, we did as our government asked, but you may be surprised to know that most of us supported the government position at a time of a Communist threat to our north. We were willing combatants and despite many Australians protesting our participation in the war, there were many more who supported it.

I, for one, do not consider the government to have been at fault.

Yes, while we did our duty some of our population failed us, but only some- those who marched in the moratoriums carrying the enemy Viet Cong flag, those in the unions who, for example, stopped our mail from being sent to us, and those of the RSL whose actions are described in the entries above.

Re: RSL Talk of comparing wars

Dave you say we were all proud and happy to go to Vietnam, if we were so keen why did we have to have conscription ,and i for one was just as proud of my participation in the moratorium marches as my service in vietnam.

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