Putting aside any situation of 'large packs' being unofficially adapted to being used as pannier bags, were there any official changes to the pattern/design of the canvas panniers? I ask as I had a chap insisting that my bags were 'early pattern'. This was a new one to me, as I've only been aware of what I saw as a single design in use. Over to you guys.

email (option): cruiserchooser@hotmail.co.uk

You should have asked him to explain...

I've seen some variations in the details of the shape of the corners of the 'flap' and there certainly seem to be colour variations...

On some bags the corner pieces are attached right at the top corners, on others slightly lower down the back of the bag....

There are also different versions of the 'Y' straps with the shape and materials of the triangular part varying...

I've only ever noticed one overall basic pattern for the bags and assumed minor variations may have occurred when different manufacturers were used...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

You will see a slight difference in manufacturing as many of the small shops followed a general pattern, but as Ian mentioned varied slightly in detail. Color wise you will always see a difference, that can be either because of the material difference back then as well as the fading over the past 70 years. You'll even see different colors of leather used. (Note one of my attached photos) I've done tons of vehicle and airplane restoration jobs over the years and no OD paint was the same. I do recommend staying away from the super green (Hulk color) pannier bags as they seem to be incorrect. I have not seen a photo where they have been used.

I believe the third photo might be a Shipper repro. Which SPEAKING of, I ordered my bags two months ago...still no word on them.

email (option): mike.kaczorowski@gmail.com

Ian, I did intend to ask him to expand but could not find him when I had the time to talk - as it goes eh? I share your opinion regarding variations in details and colour depending upon manufacturer and material supplied. I gained the impression, but could be wrong, that he was inferring there was some kind of design difference. My perusal of photos doesn't seem to show any variation, but my he was ever so certain in his stance ! :-)

email (option): cruiserchooser@hotmail.co.uk

I have several pairs of original bags including these 1943 dated brownish pair. Mostly they are more of a buff colour and I have at least one other pair dated at 1944.


I also have these spare bags. The pair on the left are webbing and look to be stamped ABL Ltd and dated 1950. I wonder if a someone was professionally converting back packs? I think the dark green ones are also post war and supplied in great numbers for Triumph TRW's. They are better when faded and still preferable to repros I think. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Wartime Pannier Bags, first introduced during 1941, were of a standardised, approved design........any variation on this would be manufacturer only.............

Main colour on BRITISH-made bags (made from canvas duck) was Brown, although in reality this varied from light tan, mid brown, through to a chocolate brown............edging trim and webbing fittings may have contrasted with this however, and some leather fittings were in brown as opposed to black (the rear pockets)..............

There is some suggestion that both India and Canada produced pannier bags and "Y" straps during WW2 but there is no evidence to support this although the likelihood is probable..........

Post-war, both the UK and Canada made pannier bags to fit not just the TRW but G3L's and M20's remaining in service with wartime stocks reducing.............the Canadian examples in particular being made in a green canvas duck (which soon fades in use however).................it is highly likely that the Dutch and others also produced their own versions to keep supplies going..........BSA themselves, offered the canvas panniers (and WD frames) as an option post-war for the civvy market and as such may well have changed the pattern slightly and/or colour...........

"ABL" is Armée Belge / Belgische Leger. They will be post-war Belgian manufacture. The Belgians seem to have copied everything from steel helmets to jack-knives during the 1950s.

Was that an "ABL" or "ABL Ltd" stamp?

"ABL" would certainly be Belgian Army, "ABL Ltd" sounds British to me...

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

In Mike's photo, it shows the Y straps with the crows foot,makers name and date. Is this correct? I would have thought that just the stap would have markings.
Dave

email (option): jeepfinger@blueyonder.co.uk

Artistic license on the part of Schipperfabrik I think...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Also worth noting about the Schipperfabrik product...

The strap that joins the bags together is too short...Barely long enough to join them up when fitted to an M20...

Likewise the Y straps are too short as well...Very difficult to secure when the bags are loaded...

Finally, the leather corner pieces are marginally too close together making them nearly impossible to fit to the pannier carrier press studs..

Material weight and colour are good...and they also fade quickly so I guess that makes them like the originals in that respect... ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I agree about the tight fit of the Schipper product on my bags, but a pal purchased some recently and they fitted without any problem. Maybe they have finally bowed to the feedback and enlarged the spacing? Or maybe he has some dodgy smaller repro frames :-):-)

That aside thanks for the detail everyone.

email (option): cruiserchooser@hotmail.co.uk

yea I got a set from them a couple of months ago fitted straight on a good tight (not too tight) fit

email (option): karl.edmondson@btopenworld.com

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Another thing I have found...grease the press studs before fitting or you will probably damage the bags in the future trying to remove them after corrosion has occurred...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com